september weave study (I chain)
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Joined: March 3, 2002
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Location: tres piedras, new mexico

september weave study (I chain)
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Posted on Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:28 am
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I Chain

not much activity last month, so i'm just naming one.

for what it's worth, i'm selling the things i'm making with these monthly studies. pros, it could be worth your time.

i intend to use this month to demonstrate multiple AR orbital weaves.

one of the largest problems with the orbital weaves is the large ARs that the weaves require. large ARs are weak rings.. so, often the orbitals get ignored as viable options. you can see the closures in the library image, evidence of too large an AR.

if you balance the orbiting and orbited rings properly you can use stronger rings and still get a very nice orbital interaction.

i have a little bit of time off coming up so i'll see what i can turn out in the next week to give people some ideas.


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

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Posted on Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:02 am
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Someone doing tutorials would be nice too. Just sayin'. Wink

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Posted on Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:54 pm
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I have a question about the picture of this weave. It looks like there is an orbital ring on each end (where it's being held) that is not part of the rest of the weave?


"I am a leaf on the wind." ~ Wash
Lorraine's Chains
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Posted on Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:27 pm
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lorraine wrote:
I have a question about the picture of this weave. It looks like there is an orbital ring on each end (where it's being held) that is not part of the rest of the weave?


After looking at the picture, I'm fairly convinced the weave itself might actually fall appart without them...



Joined: May 07, 2008
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Location: Germany, Herxheim

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Posted on Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:30 pm
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Agreeing with Kim, a first experiment - using different ARs for base 2-2-2 chain and captive rings. As I find ARs above 6.0 unuseable for butted maille, and the weaves documented AR of 11 sheer insanely high, I began with an AR of 6.0 for the base chain, and looked what might fit for the captives. Rings with an AR of 4.9 just fit right, and cannot be expelled by even wild manipulations. Only the very first set captive, or one that has no neighboring captive(s) on either side, can be released by distorting the chain.

I'll experiment with further lowered AR pairings.

And btw: While the I chain originally was a descendant of Captive Orbital Hex Cage, there is no orbital remaining (only the submitted weave photo shows some 'residual' ones at the sample chain's ends, so that tag ought to vanish...

btw2: The easiest method for quick production of chain lengths is to begin with a 1-2-2-2-1-2-2-2... chain, sandwiching the two captives adjacent to a -1- ring, and affixing these two by setting the ring to convert the -1- to a -2-

-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper MAl Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Ps Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hip

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Joined: July 19, 2011
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Posted on Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:47 pm
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ZiLi wrote:
Agreeing with Kim, a first experiment - using different ARs for base 2-2-2 chain and captive rings. As I find ARs above 6.0 unuseable for butted maille, and the weaves documented AR of 11 sheer insanely high, I began with an AR of 6.0 for the base chain, and looked what might fit for the captives. Rings with an AR of 4.9 just fit right, and cannot be expelled by even wild manipulations. Only the very first set captive, or one that has no neighboring captive(s) on either side, can be released by distorting the chain.
-ZiLi-


Zili - Out of idle curiosity, how flexible is the resultant chain? I've still to make a replacement watch chain, and AR6 sounds a lot more feasible than AR11!


"I think I know what I did wrong!"

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Posted on Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:02 pm
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It's VERY flexible - very similar to a 2-2-2 chain without captives.

But folks: With regret I have to tell, that despite my assumption that the captives were safely in place, this is unfortunately NOT the case - I just managed to remove and re-set a captive, without pliers, by a particular 'rolling-up' technique to liberate it. So I might need to go a little bit up with the captive's AR; maybe 0.2 to 0.3 more (to 5.1 to 5.2), or going down with the base chain's AR by maybe 0.2 Sad

Lemme see what rings are in my stock, and I'll continue experimenting, and report thereafter.

-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper MAl Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Ps Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hip

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Joined: March 3, 2002
Posts: 4378
Submissions: 79
Location: tres piedras, new mexico

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Posted on Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:54 am
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Daemon_Lotos wrote:
lorraine wrote:
I have a question about the picture of this weave. It looks like there is an orbital ring on each end (where it's being held) that is not part of the rest of the weave?


After looking at the picture, I'm fairly convinced the weave itself might actually fall appart without them...


the chain holds fine without the orbitals.

my version is solid and supple..

i do have a sample and a couple pair of earrings i made out of this weave.. pictures after i load the kiln.

i plan to make some using orbital interactions..

on a tagging note.. european? really? i don't see it. and orbital? only barely because the chain has 2 thrown in on the ends as an afterthought.

on first glance i thought the orbitals were more regular. i don't study weaves too thoroughly before i pick them for the study.

i also have some multi-AR orbital attached to my Ichain sample..
it's a party, everyone is invited.


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

Joined: March 3, 2002
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Location: tres piedras, new mexico

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Posted on Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:41 am
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I-chain
4.84 - captor rings
4.22 - connector rings
3 - captive rings
random 16ga rings for earring accent rings


for the captive rings i used both 3 and 3.38. 3.38 was tight. the 3s were on the lower end of workable, but so far no popping out, despite bending. not as unstable as it is with large AR rings.

related to 4 in 2 Captivated 4 in 2
Ichain only has one grain with captives, this allows for much smaller AR rings to be used.


orbital
3.38 - simple chain
4.22 - orbiting rings
4.84 - transition orbital
5.38 - single AR orbital

most of the orbital is made from 4.22 rings orbiting 3.38 rings. i showed the single AR (5.3Uber orbital for visual comparison. in order for the transition to feel right i switched the orbital AR at the transition.

this orbital is supple, and has a substance that the single AR orbitals do not.


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

Joined: May 07, 2008
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Location: Germany, Herxheim

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Posted on Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:42 am
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OK folks, as I did not yet want to begin with tree-AR I-chain, I refined my AR6.0/4.9 approach further, by using AR of 4.9 not only for the captured ring, but all rings with the same orientation, but continuing to use the 8r=6.0] rings for the other orientation. That resulted in a now stable chain, without risk of losing the captives when distorting the chain.



About the weave's properties: I Chain behaves somewhat mulish, as it behaves reluctant, when you attempt to apply torsion to the stretched chain. And due to the continued sandwiching/layering of rings throughout a chain's length it will expose any irregularities of final closed rings, so such a chain will have a slight twist - at least I couldn't avoid that.

My first experimental I Chain (bse 2-2-2 chain all AR6, only captives small) behaved much more 'gentle' in that regard. And after replacing the 4.9 rings by slightly larger ones with an effective AR of 5.2 these could not more be expelled ('effective AR', as I used different wire diameter rings with an ring outer diameter that same WD rings with an ar of 5.2 would have, and I was hesitant to produce such rings just for an experiment).

-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper MAl Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Ps Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hip

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Joined: March 3, 2002
Posts: 4378
Submissions: 79
Location: tres piedras, new mexico

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Posted on Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:04 pm
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zili, i'm calling this month yours.

what weave do you want us to study next month?


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

Joined: May 07, 2008
Posts: 3615
Submissions: 149
Location: Germany, Herxheim

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Posted on Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:49 pm
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Well Kim, I found yours somewhat more convincing, but anyway: I think the October one should be (IF it's allowed to nominate weave FAMILIES) Byzantine SHEET variations - and it doesn't hurt if some are created that are not yet published. Is that agreeable, or ask you for nominating a single, particular weave?

-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper MAl Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Ps Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hip

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Joined: March 3, 2002
Posts: 4378
Submissions: 79
Location: tres piedras, new mexico

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Posted on Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:58 pm
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let's go with it.

i picked you because i don't want to be dominating the weave choices..

i want to be making weaves that i wouldn't normally be choosing.

i'll post the new thread in a few days.


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

Joined: August 30, 2008
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Location: Burlington, ON, Canada

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Posted on Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:44 pm
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Easy there pilgrim!
September's not over yet Coif LoL

While I don't think we'll see any more submissions, let's not close the door yet!

I'd also like to suggest that we keep these to a single weave decleration... As it's very hard to judge the merits of submissions if multiple weaves become allowed, and everything just breaks down Very Happy

Really, I just want to be completely disagreeable today Very Happy



Joined: March 3, 2002
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Location: tres piedras, new mexico

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Posted on Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:52 pm
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lotos, i'd agree with you if we had more participation..

however, on that note, if someone comes out with a fantastic study in the next couple days i'm willing to reconsider. that said, the door never closes and anyone wanting to increase the knowledge of any past weave study thread is more than welcome to study and post. there are no real prizes here, other than knowledge.

i'm willing to give "byzantine sheets" a go and see what comes out of it. the idea is to increase our knowledge base. this is a pretty new thing and we really don't know what works best.

and, honestly, if we can get through all the byz sheets in a month and not have to revisit them again, i wouldn't be sad about it.


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

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