Who's it gonna' be?
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Joined: August 23, 2004
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Who's it gonna' be?
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Posted on Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:04 am
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So who is going to be our new Weave's Admin?

I nominate...not me.

Just thought we might want to get this settled while things are slow.

Joined: April 15, 2002
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Posted on Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:23 am
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I've had scattered thoughts on this.

Here's my same list of nominations I've had the last 3 times this has come up. People who haven't volunteered but I think have demonstrated the talent and initiative to do it on their own anyway, and the ability to explain their point of view rationally, and might be roped into the duties:

- Dave Austin (though we have a truce going back 2 weave admins vacancies ago... I don't nominate him, he doesn't nominate me Very Happy), on his website.
- Zlosk, in conversation, and his work on AR over the years.
- Phong, on his website.
- Elemental Dragon, in conversation, over the years.

Past weaves admins who did great and could pick it back up, just don't want to:

- Sakredchao
- Lorenzo
- Blaise
- Tesserex

And my usual qualifier, to go after people who have made attempts to create or categorize a weavebase themselves, so we can see they have the chops for the job.

My requirements for a Weave Admin, in order of importance:

1 - Ability to carry on a rational conversation, explain their point of view and decisions without becoming upset. Nothing else trumps this. True of any BOD member.

2 - Ability to behave consistently, not on whim. Need someone who, even if marching to their own beat, the rest of us and the membership can at least understand and predict.

3 - Ability to put the time in to do the work. No one else can address the weaves queue, so, putting in enough time is important. Otherwise we might as well pick someone else.

4 - Ability to categorize things, sort things, and make decisions involving criteria, limitations and the long-term consequences of their choices. A general ability to do the generic job. Everything about the job that doesn't involve weave knowledge, but someone who has potential.

5 - Ability to understand weaves, visualize and explain weave interactions, understand propagation of weave concepts.

...

To me, what they actually know about weaves isn't that important. All the others will lead them to doing the job well regardless.

A shortcut to this is to just pick someone who's already done the stuff on their own, as a bonus, it shows they are actually interested in it and didn't give up when they had to make a decision.

...

I was thinking of two general directions to take this considering the current situation. One, we could cater to the current political climate and try to appease people. Two, we could not cater to it and just do what we think is best, same as always.

Normally, we, being some of the oldest and most active members and people with responsibility associated with our words, would just decide amongst ourselves who was best for the job among those who wanted it, and they'd get the job.

The problem lately, is that there's a small handful of people who've been making a really big stink about their theory that the BOD has an agenda against them, or against the membership, or.. I dunno. I don't quite understand it. So, basically, any decision we make, is going to be interpreted and stunk up further as "See? They pushed things in this direction so they could put [user] in charge of weaves!" It doesn't matter what happens, anything will be interpreted that way.

So, we could cater to that, or not. If not, just ignore it and do what we think is best.

If we want to cater to it, one of the maybe-legitimate claims made recently is that the general membership doesn't get to be involved in as much discussion and decision-making. So, we could do a few things:

1 - Ask a bit more publicly than we usually do.
2 - Let the membership talk about who would be best for the job.
3 - Let the membership elect a BOD member.

#3 goes against the charter, there is no such thing yet, we could change the charter, or, we just choose to act by whatever the membership decides.

The reason that this is a politically-better solution, but not as good as us deciding on our own, is that it would basically turn into a popularity contest. People would vote on who they liked. Most of the membership doesn't know enough about the job, or the candidates, to make as good of a decision as we do. Nor does their vote have consequences to them, like it does to us. To most, the weaves admining is just something that happens in the background, and if they've started thinking about the challenges, it's only recently.

Versus us, having been through 5 weaves admins now, and countless discussions, know pretty well what the job is, and could say who could do it well. Same as any non-profit org.

I expect there will be almost no one willing to commit to the job, won't be much of a race. Duties are chains, not rewards. But.. *shrug*.

I think the best course is to open it up to public discussion regardless. No reason not to. Do a public call for volunteers who can commit. See who's interested. Then maybe a public chat on the issue to decide, like the last batch of admins.

...

Another important thing to me, is that we perhaps try to come up with some criteria on our own, and not leave it up to weaves admin entirely to invent. One of the reasons the last weaves admin struggled so much, is they had very little to work with. Previous admins kinda just "got it" on their own, didn't need help, and all had clear systems. That's not true of everyone.

I proposed a new Gallery-collector category for rejected weaves a few weeks ago. Somewhere for minor variations, or just pictures of weaves. Maybe do that as a temp measure, until the tagging system that MAIL 3.0 will bring launches. Last I asked, DL figured 6 months - 1 year before launch. I suspect that's 6-12 months starting from the day he gets bored of his Xbox, but.. Razz

Each weaves admin brings their own interpretation on what is and isn't a weave, but, would be good if, perhaps before we choose, we see everyone's ideas on it first.

...

In the short-mid term until we have more things figured out, maybe we don't need a weaves admin.

Zili proposed the other day that we have double-check system for weaves until someone steps up for the job. Just, if one admin thinks it passes, says so, and if another admin seconds it, it passes.

It's a sloppy system, and no one person would have a weaves-map, but it might work for a small period of time if we need it to.

Those're my thoughts.

Joined: February 29, 2004
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Posted on Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:08 pm
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I'll second that "Not Me" but aim it in a different direction. As in Not ME.

As for actual useful suggestions ...

*down periscope - rig for silent running*


"Do not go where the path may lead,
go instead where there is no path and leave a trail."
– Ralph Waldo Emerson

My blog: The (New) Eclectic Dragonfly. Some of my stuff at CafePress!

Joined: January 21, 2004
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Posted on Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:38 am
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Hmm...

Other than thinking I could do it, I think I better be officially neutral for this decision.

-phong, covers himself with a conch shell like that cool octopus



-- CGMaille tutorials now hosted here at MAIL! --

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Posted on Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:51 am
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Phong wrote:
Other than thinking I could do it, I think I better be officially neutral for this decision.


Well, until Drax comes back quasi-full-time... You're the only one we have to do articles...

Like everyone else, I vote not me... But that was probably sort of assumed... I have a plenty full plate.

I would like to see the Membership's input on this... Perhaps we could post a thread asking them for their input. Not a specific recommendation, mind you, just get a gauge for how they feel on the subject.

Is two Weave Admins really better than one?
Would you rather a current BOD Member took the post?
If so, who? Why?
Would you like to see a specific member promoted to the BOD as Weaves Admin?
If so, who? Why?



Joined: December 22, 2007
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Posted on Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:05 am
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I would like to see Phong take over as Weaves Admin. I would happily volunteer as Articles Assistant.


"I am a leaf on the wind." ~ Wash
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Posted on Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:06 pm
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i would be happy with phong, as long as he is not the one heading articles and weaves... as long as he can look past his own opinions about things like "units" and follow the will of the BOD/membership.

how do you feel about this, phong?

it is easier to find someone literate in english than maille.

i do not care if we use a current BOD member or shackle a new one.

kim


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

Joined: April 15, 2002
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Posted on Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:15 pm
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sakredchao wrote:
i would be happy with phong, as long as he is not the one heading articles and weaves... as long as he can look past his own opinions about things like "units" and follow the will of the BOD/membership.


Whatever system (whatever that is) the new admin (whoever that is) follows, needs to be understood by them, and the system needs to make sense and be consistent.

I myself tried several times, but could never understand the previous admin's system, and also saw it to be inconsistent when applied. It's possible that it can't be and that it doesn't make sense to continue.

I'm game with Zili's temporary 2-man system, while everyone else tries to figure out the question: "What makes a weave?", and then see who has handled themselves best in that discussion and has the best grasp of it. We're seeing at least one effort by a member to classify weaves by his own system, that's a good start.

In terms of having Phong manage weaves, he's just moved, started a new job, and is leaving the continent for several months. I'm wary of giving responsibility to someone who may or may not find themselves still interested in the community or with the time to dedicate to it. Same as anyone, I'm "fine" with him having the duties, though I'm not sure he's the best for it out of everyone who may want the job.

There's no big rush, to me, to get someone on the job. Especially when the first thing they have to do is figure out what criteria they will be accepting/rejecting weaves by, and how they will classify them. Putting someone new at the job is just going to pressure them to make hasty decisions to keep the queue empty. Like I said, in the past, most weave admins just kinda "got it" and took up the duties quite seamlessly, but, that's not always the case. It's more important to have those discussions *first*, so whoever volunteers for the job can say "Yes I understand this and I'll follow it" rather than making it up as they go, and we (BOD and community) can observe that they are indeed capable of performing the duties well and aren't just someone who says they want to.

No other admin responsibility really requires much of an aptitude beyond ability to speak English (okay, maybe coder). Weaves admin is special.

Joined: March 3, 2002
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Posted on Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:17 pm
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i am good with 2 admins running the show until further figuring out.

good points about phong, cynake. i wonder if he wants a helper with the articles since drax is off living his life....

honestly, i'd like to see a primary and secondary admin in every area.

kim


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

Joined: August 30, 2008
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Posted on Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:59 am
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sakredchao wrote:
good points about phong, cynake. i wonder if he wants a helper with the articles since drax is off living his life....

honestly, i'd like to see a primary and secondary admin in every area.


I have no problem helping out with Articles in addition to my other duties... If Phong wants/needs help.

Really there are very few Article submits... And I already do HTML code checks/fixups in them on a semi-regular basis anyhow.



Joined: January 21, 2004
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Posted on Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:32 am
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Aside from the occasional FrontPage abomination, there isn't much to going through the article submissions. Unless DL's doing some speedy wetwork before I get to them, I don't know as it'd be necessary for there to be 2 perma-admins.

However, I do like the idea of incoming admins talking with outgoing admins to find out how they do things, what their policies are, etc. And in general, I think it'd be a good idea for admins to document their guidelines, policies, etc. SOP's n' such. Let's get MAIL ISO9001-ified!

-phong



-- CGMaille tutorials now hosted here at MAIL! --

Joined: April 15, 2002
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Posted on Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:42 am
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Daemon_Lotos wrote:
I have no problem helping out with Articles in addition to my other duties... If Phong wants/needs help.


Anyone can do this. I could go make a request right now in the Knitting Circle, and have 10 qualified volunteers pop up willing to commit to being articles assistant. You're 1 of 2 people we've found who can/will code.

If Phong wants a backup, I'm cool with Lorraine doing it if she wants more duties. And if things get hairy, I can pick up the slack or pitch in until we find someone else.

... Unless.. you wanna switch, and give me the keys to the database. I can code. You've seen examples of it. It's pretty good, right? Rolling Eyes

Quote:
Really there are very few Article submits... And I already do HTML code checks/fixups in them on a semi-regular basis anyhow.


Well stop that. *points to 3.0*. Back to work!

I see what you're trying, and you can't fool us. You want someone else spending the next two years rebuilding the entire website. Too bad. You're chained up already, plus you've done too good a job for us to allow you to leave. Very Happy

Once again, life demonstrates that the reward for doing good work is... more work.

...

On a more serious note.. I can actually code, eh? I majored in CompSci for a year or two in college before switching. I switched before it even became challenging, I figure I've the equivalent of 2-3 years of a degree under my belt. I wouldn't trust me to *do* anything, but, it might help communication between us in terms of planning <--> coding, if I could actually look at the database. On a strictly hand-off-no-changes basis. It might make my suggestions more relevant if I can actually see how things are done, and I can prolly help you bug hunt now and then.

Joined: August 30, 2008
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Posted on Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:45 am
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Phong wrote:
Aside from the occasional FrontPage abomination, there isn't much to going through the article submissions. Unless DL's doing some speedy wetwork before I get to them


Sometimes, I have been known to... But you're capable enough, I just get bored at 4am...

Cynake wrote:
... Unless.. you wanna switch, and give me the keys to the database. I can code. You've seen examples of it. It's pretty good, right?


I'm gonna go with... Not so much Coif LoL

Cynake wrote:
I see what you're trying, and you can't fool us. You want someone else spending the next two years rebuilding the entire website. Too bad. You're chained up already, plus you've done too good a job for us to allow you to leave. Very Happy

Once again, life demonstrates that the reward for doing good work is... more work.


Curses, foiled again! Once again, childhood books have lied to me!

Cynake wrote:
On a more serious note.. I can actually code, eh? I majored in CompSci for a year or two in college before switching. I switched before it even became challenging, I figure I've the equivalent of 2-3 years of a degree under my belt. I wouldn't trust me to *do* anything, but, it might help communication between us in terms of planning <--> coding, if I could actually look at the database. On a strictly hand-off-no-changes basis. It might make my suggestions more relevant if I can actually see how things are done, and I can prolly help you bug hunt now and then.


The database isn't exactly a 'visible' structure... I mean, phpMyAdmin shows you a tabled (think Excel) view of the database tables themselves, but the data structures and their relationships are tricky things... I don't even fully understand the way everything is laid out... I learn as I go, and then promptly forget chunks... But I digress...

That being said, I'll be taking you up on your offer when it comes time to bug check MAIL 3.0 Wink My code, however, is FAR better commented than the current MAIL cgi files.



Joined: March 3, 2002
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Posted on Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:36 pm
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Alright, well since I'm not working now, I have some free time. I can volunteer to fill in until a more permanent replacement is found. I don't even want to touch that mess of already submitted stuff but I could at least clear out the queue.


www.mailletec.com

Y'know, that might just be crazy enough to work!

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Posted on Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:25 pm
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Eric - I'm on board with that.

No more working at TRL?

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