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Dinwar
 [ Major Voice ]
Joined: September 26, 2009
Posts: 500
Submissions: 0
Location: Meridies
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| Maille Classification |
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| Posted on Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:22 pm |
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I want to play around a bit with maille classification, and want to bounce ideas off of people with more experience at the fancy weaves than I have. I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes here or anything--this is merely an exercise I want to try, and I think I'll have fun with. I've got a background in geology and paleontology, so I've got experience with a few different modes of classification that may help here--specifically, taxonomy and lattice types. Plus, yeah, I'm just that weird. 
Here's my idea. I want to classify weaves on the basis of a single latice unit. For example, a fivelet in Euro 4-in-1 would be one unit, while a dragonscale would be five big and five little rings in a square. Latices in geology are often at funny angles, and this exists in maille as well--the persian 3-in-1 sheet is a rhombus, for example.
The dimensions a weave can be expanded in would necessarily play a role. For example, a Euro 4-in-1 can really only be expanded in two dimensions (other dimensions alter the latice in a fundimental way). Byzantine can expand in three. Half-persian can expand in two, while full persion can only expand in one (again, other dimensions alter the latice itself).
Obviously unit weaves would fit perfectly into this. I'm already dealing with weaves as merely connected latice units, so dealing with unconnectable latices (ones where connections either go outside the latice or alter it in some way) isn't a problem. Not sure of a comperable mineral example (now that's a thought--are any minerals limited to one latice unit? Hm.....).
I know byzie, the Euro even-numbered weaves (4-in-1, 6-in-1, even made an 8-in-1 ring, but it fell apart on me), Dragonscale, the simple persian stuff (half, 3/4, and full 3-in-1, 4-in-1, etc., plus 3-in-1 sheet), helm, and a few others.....Played around with captive inverted round and Hoodoo, but haven't mastered them yet. Haven't played with the Japanese family yet. Done some spiral stuf, but that's going to require a bit more thought.
I have a few questions. First, is this an idea that's even possible? Are some weaves unaccessable using this methodology? Second, what weaves would be most useful here? What I mean is, once I learned Euro 4-in-1, the theory behind all the other even numbered weaves naturally followed. Once I learned byzantine, box weave naturally followed (yeah, I got those backwards--mostly to show up a knight who was complaining about how difficult a squire's chain was). What weaves would be the most effective use of my time? Third, has anyone done this before? I haven't seen anything like it, but that doesn't mean much with me--I miss things all the time.
Not sure where this is going. Mostly right now it's a fun way to aply some knowledge I have to my hobby. And again, I know classification is a touchy subject, but I'm honestly not trying to step on anyone's toes. It's a geology thing--we like to make a bunch of different classifications for the same thing (carbonates have two primary classification systems, for example).
[Moderated By Cynake - A member brought to my attention this belongs in the Weaves forum as it's about weaves. Chat is for non-maille stuff. Carry on.] |
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Joined: August 10, 2005
Posts: 7098
Submissions: 337
Location: UK
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| Posted on Thu Dec 31, 2009 9:22 pm |
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Sounds like a really interesting idea, looking for ward to seeing what comes of it.
Maille Code
V2.0 T7.3 R5.4 Ep Feur MAg/Cu Wm$ Cbjpw$ G0.5/3.0 I1.5/12.0 N322.150 Pajs Dacdjsw Xa7g631p4t24w64 S88 Hipsu |
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Joined: January 21, 2004
Posts: 1061
Submissions: 75
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Dinwar
[ Major Voice ]
Joined: September 26, 2009
Posts: 500
Submissions: 0
Location: Meridies
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| Posted on Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:48 pm |
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I had considered the lattice types we use in minerology, but those are almost always for 3D figures. Most of the weaves I've seen are one or two dimensional (meaning, they either are strings or sheets; Full Persian is pretty much one dimensional, while the Japanese family is pretty much two dimensional). I read about two dimensional systems of symmetry, but I've gotta learn a bit more about them before I can apply those to maille. They focus on mirror and radial symmetry, plus some glide symmetry (which I'm not too clear on just yet).
| Quote: | | I'm working on a classification theory in a more general sense (what makes a weave, what makes a variant, how to develop new weaves/variants) |
I've thought a bit about that myself....What I can come up with is a hierarchical structure. This site already has that to some extent, in that the weaves are split up into families in the Library. Biology does something similar. It allows you to talk about different things at different levels. For example, at the species level the number of orbital fissures (look like cracks on the eye socket) in a crab is critically important to classification (well, of one group). On the family level, it's irrelevant. On the Kingdom level the presence or absence of eyes themselves is irrelevant. You talk about the traits shared at each level. The only issue is, how many levels do we want? Ostensibly, any orderly adjustment can be viewed as a variation, even just hanging an extra ring off every other outer ring in a 2-in-1 chain.
I do like your suggestion. I've been poking around the Library recently; I'll have to find a few "general" weaves (ones that lead into other weaves) and work on what you suggested.  |
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Joined: August 14, 2006
Posts: 1890
Submissions: 50
Location: McPherson, Kansas
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| Posted on Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:51 am |
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It's a different approach than anyone has ever taken before, from what I've seen, but sounds like it may work better than any other prior attempt.
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Freyr
 [ Kibitzer ]
Joined: December 13, 2005
Posts: 29
Submissions: 4
Location: Marsh Lake, YT, Canada
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Joined: December 22, 2007
Posts: 4610
Submissions: 106
Location: Hampton, Virginia USA
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| Posted on Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:48 pm || Last edited by lorraine on Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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I make references to the opening post of the tread below, so here is the link:
http://mailleartisans.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=14774
Reading that will make the following clearer.
Grandparents
They are generally the "Adam and Eve" weaves that all the others can claim some connection to. There is probably very little disagreement on what Grandparent weaves are. (Although "never say never" I always say.) Grandparent weaves can lead to Inevitable Progressions (IP), Parent Weaves, Children, and Inevitable Discoveries (ID).
Parents
Weaves that have a familial connection to a Grandparent weave, but are unique in that they themselves can lead to IP's, ID's, and Children.
Children
Children are a result of a Grandparent or Parent, but are not likely to be unique enough to lead to their own Children or IP's.
Inevitable Progressions
These are the result of carrying a Grandparent or Parent weave to a natural progression, usually by adding something.
Inevitable Discoveries
These are not technically new weaves. They are an element of a Grandparent, Parent, Child, or IP that would likely be discovered multiple times by multiple people.
Some Examples
Grandparent - Euro 4-1
IP - Euro 6-1
Parent - Box
IP - Roundmaille
Child - DragonScale
ID - Barrel Ring
Grandparent and Parent Weaves would have their own separate pages. These pages would list and have pictures of the resulting Children, and IP's. ID's could be shown on the page, or they could be linked to.
This is just a starting point, I'm sure I have left something out.
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Joined: August 30, 2008
Posts: 3129
Submissions: 20
Location: Burlington, ON, Canada
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| Posted on Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:50 pm |
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| lorraine wrote: | | Variation - DragonScale |
Based on the unique requirements of DragonScale in terms of multiple ring sizes, and their given ratio... As well as the reaction of the weave, and weaving method... I'd be inclined to call it a Child, as opposed to a variant...
But I agree with eveything else
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Joined: December 22, 2007
Posts: 4610
Submissions: 106
Location: Hampton, Virginia USA
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| Posted on Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:54 pm |
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| Daemon_Lotos wrote: | | lorraine wrote: | | Variation - DragonScale |
Based on the unique requirements of DragonScale in terms of multiple ring sizes, and their given ratio... As well as the reaction of the weave, and weaving method... I'd be inclined to call it a Child, as opposed to a variant...
But I agree with eveything else |
Um, I don't know how that got there. I actually meant Child and not variation. Thanks for catching that!
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Plus everyone knows carbonate geo's are in it for the rum on a Carribbean beach and need to keep thinking crap like that up to look like they have a real job. 
