Amendments to Theme Contest Rules (Discussion)
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Posted on Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:08 pm
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DruidQueen wrote:
The only two things that I think are major problems are:
Define "maille".
Define "made within the contest time".

Basically, do scales, coke tabs, rubber rings/onion rings/donuts woven in maille weaves count as maille?

The second one has a similar problem: Completely woven in the time frame, no scraps from other projects allowed...OR...Scraps from old projects are good as long as they are being used in this new project that's being constructed in the time period.

How about this?
For the purposes of this contest, if the material you use is roundish and you wove it then we will consider it maille. Rings made of rubber/onions/donuts/coke tabs for instance do count as maille. If you use other materials that are not roundish and woven, such as beads, danglies, scales, bits or wire, duct tape, etc., they will not be considered maille, but will be considered the other 10% of your entry.
And this?
We ask that you not use pieces or fragments of maille you wove before the start of the contest.
OR
Using pieces or fragments of maille you wove before the start of the contest is acceptable as long as you constructed the finished entry within the contest time period. Please refrain from making your entire entry from pieces or fragments woven before the start of the contest. That’s not really in the spirit of fair play.

I also thought of this:
8. Your entry into this contest will be considered proof that you read and agree with all rules listed above.
Look, none of this is legally binding. We just want everyone to know the rules so that the end result is that more maille gets made and appreciated by the community. The ultimate goal of this contest is to have fun showing off all the incredible things we can do with rings.


"I am a leaf on the wind." ~ Wash
Lorraine's Chains
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Posted on Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:14 pm
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I like that 8th addition that you made.

For me, it's hard to see allowing coke tabs and not allowing scales. I think they should either both be in or out. That said, I think that both should be allowed in. Thoughtss?


I'll rise, but I won't shine.

Joined: December 22, 2007
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Location: Hampton, Virginia USA

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Posted on Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:15 pm
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MusicMan wrote:
I like the idea of bringing down the % a little. Looking at the last contest there were some beautiful pieces and some people used a "pre-fab" barrete or piece of sheet copper to attach their maille to. In some cases this could be considered almost 10% of the piece.

If we are going to keep to the % either previously made or non-maille we should have it stated in the voting thread. I will admit I sometimes look at the whole piece and forget the % thing. Voting, while maille related should be about the look entire piece. Or am I really off in left field?

I think we should allow rubber rings, pop tabs etc. as long as it is used within the weave appropriately. I remember someone doing some E 4-1 with dried orange rinds last year. Now suppose our next contest is fruit/veggie maille. Would this be allowed?

Yes I would really like to see the 90% lowered. Personally, anything above 50% would be fine with me. These rules are not really enforceable, it's the intent behind them that counts. So as long as the entry is "mostly" maille, I'm fat , dumb, and happy.


"I am a leaf on the wind." ~ Wash
Lorraine's Chains
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Joined: December 22, 2007
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Posted on Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:16 pm
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DruidQueen wrote:
I like that 8th addition that you made.

For me, it's hard to see allowing coke tabs and not allowing scales. I think they should either both be in or out. That said, I think that both should be allowed in. Thoughtss?

That is absolutely fine with me. My personal opinion is that neither one really meets the roundish criterion. But I'm fine either way.


"I am a leaf on the wind." ~ Wash
Lorraine's Chains
Gallery Submission Guidelines

Joined: April 02, 2008
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Posted on Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:36 pm
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I also like the addition of #8 lorraine.


Once you stop learning, you stop living, so...
Ask questions.
Try new things.
Share what you know.

MailleCode V2.0 T5.3 R4.4 E0.0 Feur MFe.sBr Wg Cwb G.7-5.1 I3.1-11 N20.5 Pj Dcdjt Xa1w2 S08

Joined: May 07, 2008
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Posted on Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:56 pm
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I guess, non-metal and non-standard 'rings' (like e.g. scales) should count as maille, as long as they are used as rings would (or could) be used, but you all know my personal opinion, that maille is defined by the technique and not by the material.

And I agree with MusicMan's note, that the percentage rule could apply to non-maille as well as pre-made maille - as pre-made maille could be simply defined as quasi non-maille and so find a 'legal backdoor' into a contest piece. I wouldn't have any problem with such a rule.

And if there is any doubt about the 'legality' of a contest entry, I would apply the 'in dubio pro reo' rule - agree to the submission - and let the voters decide with their vote.

-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper MAl Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Ps Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hip

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Joined: January 10, 2009
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Posted on Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:07 pm
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I like the idea of any material woven as mail being included, it opens up creativity.

The idea put forth about photos of pre-made portions also has merit.

And I love, love, love the idea that mostly mail, mail being the focus, but without a strict percentage, is legit.

The proposition for rule #8, Lorraine, is very good, as long as the rules are published in an easily accessible place for all entrants. Brava!

Joined: December 22, 2007
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Location: Hampton, Virginia USA

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Posted on Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:03 pm
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Amended rules:

1. Entries must be mostly maille.
Because this is a site devoted to everything maille we ask that all entries consist mostly (50% or more) of maille. For the purposes of this contest, if you can “weave” it, we will happily call it maille. For example, rings made of rubber/onions/donuts/coke tabs/pineapple slices (you get the idea) all count as maille. This community has also agreed that scales do indeed count as maille, so feel free to use them as well. Things such as beads, decorations, bits of wire, duct tape, (again, you get the idea), are not considered maille and therefore will not be included in the definition of “mostly maille”. This is a very subjective rule, so please apply it with the same good intentions with which it was written.

3. Entries must be made within the time frame of the contest.
We would like to encourage creativity with these contests. Part of the creative process is the actual weaving of the maille. With that in mind, we ask that you submit only entries that you conceived and made specifically for the contest between the time the contest opens and closes. Using pieces or fragments of maille you wove before the start of the contest is acceptable as long as you constructed the finished entry within the contest time period. HOWEVER, please be aware that previously woven maille will fall into the category of non-maille as defined in rule #1. In other words, the community will be judging the new part of your entry and not the previously made old parts.

Note: I've been writing all of this with the assumption that it would always be displayed in the contest threads, so yes rule #8 would be completely fair, I think.


"I am a leaf on the wind." ~ Wash
Lorraine's Chains
Gallery Submission Guidelines

Joined: May 07, 2008
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Location: Germany, Herxheim

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Posted on Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:24 pm
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@Lorraine: I FULLY AGREE with your proposal (content and word choice) to 1. and 3. (and 8. as well). I hope, others will second that - or at least find it agreeable enough not to collide too much with one's personal opinions.

A note at dis-agreeing maillers: I would have had a piece for the running contest that would have been 'legal' to submit with these proposed new definitions of rules - but decided against submitting it, because the current rules would have been stretched a bit too much - and despite the fact that this St.Mary's crown I made might have been a contender with some chances...

-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper MAl Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Ps Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hip

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Joined: January 10, 2009
Posts: 615
Submissions: 0

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Posted on Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:52 pm
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wow! awesome and well-stated! you have my vote to accept the rules.

Joined: December 22, 2007
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Location: Hampton, Virginia USA

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Posted on Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:55 pm
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In an effort to put what has been discussed today all in one place, I did some cutting and pasting. Again, this is just a proposal. Nothing written in stone.

1. Entries must be mostly maille.
Because this is a site devoted to everything maille we ask that all entries consist mostly (more than 50%) of maille. For the purposes of this contest, if you can “weave” it, we will happily call it maille. For example, rings made of rubber/onions/donuts/coke tabs/pineapple slices (you get the idea) all count as maille. This community has also agreed that scales do indeed count as maille, so feel free to use them as well. Things such as beads, decorations, bits of wire, duct tape, (again, you get the idea), are not considered maille and therefore will not be included in the definition of “mostly maille”. This is a very subjective rule, so please apply it with the same good intentions with which it was written.

2. Entries must be previously unsubmitted work.
We have lots of pictures here on MAIL of lots of beautiful maille. Your entry should be something we have never seen before so that we can add even more pictures of even more beautiful maille.

3. Entries must be made within the time frame of the contest.
We would like to encourage creativity with these contests. Part of the creative process is the actual weaving of the maille. With that in mind, we ask that you submit only entries that you conceived and made specifically for the contest between the time the contest opens and closes. Using pieces or fragments of maille you wove before the start of the contest is acceptable as long as you constructed the finished entry within the contest time period. HOWEVER, please be aware that previously woven maille will fall into the category of non-maille as defined in rule #1. In other words, the community will be judging the new part of your entry and not the previously made old parts.

4. You are allowed as many entries as you like.
If fact, we encourage you to enter multiple submissions. We love to look at pretty pictures of maille.

5. Post a picture of your entry in the appropriate thread before the end of the contest.
We have to be able to see it to vote on it.

6. The contest runs for 12 weeks.
Plenty of time to come up with an idea, weave it, and take a picture.

7. Entries must have some connection to the stated theme of the contest.
This rule is the one you should have the most fun interpreting. Be creative, funny (or punny), and think outside the box.

8. Your entry into this contest will be considered proof that you read and agree with all rules listed above.
Look, none of this is legally binding. We just want everyone to know the rules so that the end result is that more maille gets made and appreciated by the community. The ultimate goal of this contest is to have fun showing off all the incredible things we can do with rings.

Let the dicussion continue. Very Happy


"I am a leaf on the wind." ~ Wash
Lorraine's Chains
Gallery Submission Guidelines

Joined: May 07, 2008
Posts: 3615
Submissions: 149
Location: Germany, Herxheim

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Posted on Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:12 pm
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OK, I propose to let the "non-maille substitution" rule for pre-made parts (in rule 3) apply also for rule 2 (unpublished pieces).

Example: I once answered in a thread about curtains with a proposal to use a web instead of an area weave - to save weaving time when making large areas - and I made a sample piece, as i tend to do relatively often, and naturally published a photo of this piece. Now this piece resides in the 'parts bin for possible reuse' besides a couple of others once shown as weave sample - and is currently disallowed to use in a contest - even as minor part.
If this piece was allowed as quasi-non-maille part of a contest piece, like another (only not shown before) pre-contest produced piece would be, I would re-use it without hesitation, being satisfied to have found a good second (and final) purpose for that piece. I simply dislike to re-make an already existing piece - only for the purpose of fulfilling rules I tend to dislike.

And again: I would like to see the contest voters being the final deciding instance, and give as much liberty as possible to potential contest submitters - as many rules as necessary, as few as possible.

(I like to promote evolution without asking for revolution)
-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper MAl Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Ps Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hip

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Joined: December 22, 2007
Posts: 4610
Submissions: 106
Location: Hampton, Virginia USA

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Posted on Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:58 pm
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ZiLi wrote:
OK, I propose to let the "non-maille substitution" rule for pre-made parts (in rule 3) apply also for rule 2 (unpublished pieces).

Example: I once answered in a thread about curtains with a proposal to use a web instead of an area weave - to save weaving time when making large areas - and I made a sample piece, as i tend to do relatively often, and naturally published a photo of this piece. Now this piece resides in the 'parts bin for possible reuse' besides a couple of others once shown as weave sample - and is currently disallowed to use in a contest - even as minor part.
If this piece was allowed as quasi-non-maille part of a contest piece, like another (only not shown before) pre-contest produced piece would be, I would re-use it without hesitation, being satisfied to have found a good second (and final) purpose for that piece. I simply dislike to re-make an already existing piece - only for the purpose of fulfilling rules I tend to dislike.

And again: I would like to see the contest voters being the final deciding instance, and give as much liberty as possible to potential contest submitters - as many rules as necessary, as few as possible.

(I like to promote evolution without asking for revolution)
-ZiLi-

Zili, with regard to your curtain example, I would say that you are already covered by the rules, as written. The curtain part of your entry is covered by #1 and #3 as previously made maille. And while you may have posted a picture of the curtains previously, you will not have posted a picture of your finished entry. I think your example falls within the spirit of the rules.

Regarding what people are voting for, I really think that we should stay away from giving any directives. When you get right down to it, people can and will vote for any of the entries for any reason they choose. The entrants should follow the rules to the best of their abilities. The voters should be free to regard or disregard those rules and vote for whomever they choose. (Down with the "Thought Police" Very Happy )


"I am a leaf on the wind." ~ Wash
Lorraine's Chains
Gallery Submission Guidelines

Joined: October 21, 2008
Posts: 740
Submissions: 1
Location: Virginia

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Posted on Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:16 am
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Quote:

1. Entries must be mostly maille.
Because this is a site devoted to everything maille we ask that all entries consist mostly (more than 50%) of maille. For the purposes of this contest, if you “weave” it as maille, we will happily call maille. For example, rings made of rubber/onions/donuts/coke tabs/pineapple slices (you get the idea) can all count as maille. This community has also agreed that scales can also count as maille, so feel free to weave them into your piece as well. Things such as beads, decorations, bits of wire, duct tape, (again, you get the idea), that are not woven as maille will not be considered maille and must be in the minority. This is a very subjective rule, so please apply it with the same good intentions with which it was written.

3. Entries must be made within the time frame of the contest.
We would like to encourage creativity with these contests. Part of the creative process is the actual weaving of the maille. With that in mind, we ask that you submit only entries that you conceived and made specifically for the contest between the time the contest opens and closes. Using pieces or fragments of maille you wove before the start of the contest is acceptable as long as you constructed the finished entry within the contest time period. HOWEVER, please be aware that previously woven maille will fall into the "other" category and must be in the minority.



I agree with everything but a few subtle changes. that I made above

I think scales etc can count as the maille part IF they are woven as maille. for instance, in my hair accessory I didn't count my scales as maille, I counted them as the other 10% since they were there purely as decoration. (which is also why I never suggested my pre-made fragments could count as the other 10%--I already had the other 10%)

also, this would include other shapes than round. I have had people mention oval, square etc "rings" and I think if they can be, and are woven as maille...cool..let's see it and vote on it.

also, I think people will vote on the whole piece no matter what is new, old, maille, or not maille so really no need to include that part.

Joined: October 21, 2008
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Location: Virginia

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Posted on Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:48 am
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another thought....how about putting a blurb in the opening contest announcement (separate from the rules so not just submitters see it) that if anyone feels a submission does not comply with the rules to send a PM to DQ (or the current contest moderator) about it. She should be the one to make a determination, or to ask questions of people before it goes to a public discussion.

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