help removing topic & abuse of power
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Joined: March 3, 2002
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Location: tres piedras, new mexico

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Posted on Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:05 am
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it's ok tess, i get the "looking down my nose" thing with people, it's a family trait i'm trying to overcome. i rub a lot of folks the wrong way. if i can dish it, i can take it. Smile like i said, i could have handled myself better.

in the past i've been opposed to a trading forum... but if we have "grey areas", like blaise mentioned, then we will have inconsistant moderation. "all or none" seems to make more sense.. and i don't think i would want "none". besides, i rarely go to any other forums. might be cool to know when trl is having a sale, without having to actually go over there and check, which i don't do... (if jon would even post his sales here). Smile

this place was established for the members, and i think we, as the BOD, should do our best to represent the membership and their wishes. i know the whole idea of transferring the power to the BOD was to be able to make decisions without membership voting.. but, perhaps a simple poll is in order? i mean, we could ask them what they'd like to do with their place, if we can't or don't want to make that judgement call. other forums have a trading room and they all seem pretty civil.

in the past i've been opposed to any commercialism on MAIL. but, just like with acceptable content, my personal vision isn't everyone elses. i think that often, more rules = less people around. so far our rules are pretty reasonable. "be good to each other and no porn." i'm maybe not the best example of that first part. i get pretty intensely passionate and involved with stuff here.. but i try to remember that everyone has their own way of thinking, and mine isn't the only one. (even if it is the only one i, personally, support.)

i'm much better about the adult content thing. i'm almost always wearing pants when i log in. Coif LoL

i can see the benefits of having a trading room.
what sort of drawbacks would there be?
i don't really know what rules other forums use, or what problems they have encountered in in these areas.

kim


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

Joined: February 15, 2002
Posts: 881
Submissions: 45
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

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Posted on Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:34 pm
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It would be nice to put our "unused forum" to good use as a trading forum. Let me put forth as a suggestion:

A trading forum as a free marketplace. You can sell (or ask for) maille or non-maille items. If the transactions are NOT business-based (e.g., "I'm getting rid of this spool of wire."), then you can post as many of these as you like.

If you're a business and your post concerns your business, you're limited to one thread per month. No HTML. No pics. No blatant bumping to freshen the advertisement (answering Qs is fine). A business person can post unlimited threads if they're non-business based (e.g. your business is maille-related, but you're cleaning out your garage and are selling misc junk).

Thoughts?


The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.--Bertrand Russell

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Joined: November 23, 2002
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Posted on Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:49 pm
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yep, that's kinda what i had thought also.

we really should poll the membership about this rather than deciding, as this is a pretty major change.


thousands of rings, sure chance of slip 'n jab, what are we watin' for?

Joined: November 23, 2002
Posts: 648
Submissions: 15

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Posted on Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:50 pm
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oh i should also say that there should be something in there about abusing the unlimited posts so long as it lists only one or two items....

to put it bluntly, there will always be some smartass out there who would try to sell a bunch of stock in umpteen million threads


thousands of rings, sure chance of slip 'n jab, what are we watin' for?

Joined: March 3, 2002
Posts: 4378
Submissions: 79
Location: tres piedras, new mexico

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Posted on Sat Jan 07, 2006 6:53 am
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we should probably kep the unused forum for posterity. besides, where else would i put useless things like my useless story? did you read it? no use. it wa-is useless. it probably isn't that hard to just create another forum, but i don't actually know that for a fact. i mean, there's lots of dropdowns and other various places that the forum would need to be added.. but adding and changing are about the same amount of work..

if we were to poll would it be a simple yes/no poll.. or a variety of yes votes and a variety of no votes, with all 'yes' votes and all 'no' votes tallied, and the winning 'yes' or 'no' chosen? i seem to recall a vote in our distant past that maybe only one or two of you remember where this was an issue.

that was a little confusing. here is my example.

no trading forum, no selling or advertising (9 votes)
no trading forum, but allow limited selling by nonbusinesses (3 votes)
no trading forum, selling and advertising allowed (5 votes)

yes trading forum, with limited selling by businesses and no advertising (7 votes)
yes trading forum, businesses & advertising allowed in limited quantity (5 votes)
yes trading forum, mad max anarchy (9 votes)

in this example 'no' would have 17 votes and 'yes' would have 21, and we'd get to drive stripped down dune buggies with mounted artillery, raising pigs for methane fuel.

kim


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

Joined: February 15, 2002
Posts: 881
Submissions: 45
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

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Posted on Sat Jan 07, 2006 11:52 pm
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In a normal situation, it might be nice to have a really indepth poll. However, to get things to pass and become official, we need to get majority vote and stuff like that (don't we?) and coming up with more than two voting options makes that more improbable.

It may be best to come up with one solution, then vote yes/no on it. Let people vote no if they like it, but would want to see it slightly altered.

Unless... if we do give multiple options, can we 'collect' all the yes-like votes into one category to make it 'pass,' even if no one yes-category gets majority % required...?


The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.--Bertrand Russell

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Joined: February 15, 2002
Posts: 881
Submissions: 45
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

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Posted on Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:03 am
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Well, our other option is to take this to the Knitting Circle and get everybody involved to reach a set of guidelines that everybody can agree on. The downside to that is having so many people chatting, but the bonus is that we get input from the people who will be using it.

Thoughts?


The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.--Bertrand Russell

Maille Code V2.0 T6.4 R5.4 E=o.o Fj6.2 MAl.a W$m C$b G0.5-2.6 I1.6-9.5 N20.26 Pn Dacjs Xa25g13w5 S00 CCu

Joined: April 29, 2002
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Location: Albany, New York

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Posted on Sun Jan 08, 2006 1:34 am
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Peripheral to this topic, did any of you guys fool with the board's security settings? I couldn't help but notice that Cyanake's mod group memberships have all disappeared. It's kind of a pain for me to fix just now, but if whoever might have done it would put it back, I'd have that much less on my plate....


"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."

— George Bernard Shaw
___________________________________

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Joined: March 3, 2002
Posts: 4378
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Location: tres piedras, new mexico

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Posted on Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:14 am
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i dunno.. rygar and i are showing up as superadmins, whatever that means.. in fact, tes said that pretty much everyone but him was showing up as a superadmin. maybe we had a glitchyglitch...? i know i certainly didn't alter anything.

drax, i was thinking of just polling the membership for their opinion, and then making a final vote here in the BOD based on the results.. i think we can hold unofficial polls, so long as we make it clear that the poll is not the end result, but only to gather information about membership opinion..

something that was mentioned to me via PM was that there is a thin line between "garage sale" type things and people who are running a business.

appearantly martin sells rings on ebay. i understand there was issue with him selling them over on trl, but i don't really know too much about that firsthand. appearantly jon has rules about people selling competative things in his trading forum, and rightly so. i think, if we allow "garage sales" by people who make their living selling things like this, we should allow businesses to just plain advertise. perhaps put a limit of one thread per business in the trading forum at a time... or.. i don't really know what is fair.

so far the 2 main trading forums are part of boards that are in one way or another extensions of a chainmaille suppliers business. it would be nice to have a place that was neutral where businesses could hawk their wares. or, that was the jist of the PM i got concerning this.

kim

edit: another thought is to not allow straight advertising, but only listing "sales" and such.. making businesses who are advertising in the trading forum offer something at a discounted price to the membership in exchange for the publicity.


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

Joined: February 15, 2002
Posts: 881
Submissions: 45
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

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Posted on Sun Jan 08, 2006 8:10 pm
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I guess I'm not drawing such a distinction between "sales" and "advertising." To me, sales are a type of advertising. Or at least, a sale can be mocked up to be equivalent to advertising.

There's also a fine distinction that I *had* been drawing between what is considered business and what is considered garage sale. However, if that line is too thin, then it's fine to do away with it.


The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.--Bertrand Russell

Maille Code V2.0 T6.4 R5.4 E=o.o Fj6.2 MAl.a W$m C$b G0.5-2.6 I1.6-9.5 N20.26 Pn Dacjs Xa25g13w5 S00 CCu

Joined: February 29, 2004
Posts: 1898
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Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Marxistchussetts

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Posted on Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:40 am
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I just started an area that I?m calling ?Swap Shop? at my own board hoping that it will be enough of a draw to get other tenants of the mobile home park I own a home in to register on my board and participate in the Park Place area. (Long story short: the park is in court receivership and if we can?t organize a tenants association the park may close and we?ll all be out on our ? but I digress?) Anyway, I?m bringing this up here because the subject of starting a swap shop, or whatever we want to call it, has come up several times and posts selling things in Knitting Circle have caused some considerable chafing recently. Here?s what I?ve put up at my own site. There are currently no ?for sale? posts there yet. Just a post with my House Rules. It?s at http://slagiattstudios.com/SLAGIATTBoards/ if you want to check out what I?ve written up for rules.

I do not intend this post as spam, rather as an example of what might be done here. If my posting this here offends anyone, feel free to delete it. I will not take offence.


"Do not go where the path may lead,
go instead where there is no path and leave a trail."
– Ralph Waldo Emerson

My blog: The (New) Eclectic Dragonfly. Some of my stuff at CafePress!

Joined: March 3, 2002
Posts: 4378
Submissions: 79
Location: tres piedras, new mexico

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Posted on Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:20 am
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to me a sale would be, "10$ off purchases between now and january 15 at mywebsite.com"

or, "5% off 16ga brass rings this week, supplies limited, at mywebsite.com."

an advertisement would be, "come check out mywebsite.com."

the distinction, to me, is the discount from normal prices being their "fee" for posting.

perhaps a rule of "no business conducted in public" would help reduce "bumping". PMs and email are good for conducting business.. if something changes about an item being sold (for limited quantities).. an edit is suffecient to convey that message without bumping the thread.

kim


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

Joined: February 29, 2004
Posts: 1898
Submissions: 8
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Marxistchussetts

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Posted on Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:51 pm
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How about ?swap shop? type posts such as:

Quote:
FOR SALE: Used Hypothetical Brand cloths dryer. Older model, works well. Could be used for drying cloths or tumbling rings. $<price>US. Located in <location>. How you get it home is your problem.


or:

Quote:
WANTED TO BUY: Video camcorder for school project. Must be inexpensive (IE: cheep!) Post here or send PM to <name>. Thanx!

That?s more like what I?m envisioning this area to be used for. If any of our maille related vendors have special deals perhaps we could set up some kind of special dispensation for them. If ?we the people? have things we want to sell including finished goods that could go here too listed as above. On the other hand spam would be flat out banned. So there would be no question that the following type of post would be yanked ?post haste? by the first admin who saw it:

Quote:
Impr3ss your date with all the cheap b00tleg software on your lapt0p! www.url4cheapjunk.com.cx


Personally I don?t have a problem with ?check out my new website? type posts from members either. I?ve been guilty of that myself. Case in point two posts up ? though that was not my intent in this context. The key to whether it?s spam or a member showing off their handiwork is whether it?s a member or a commercial spammer. I think we can tell the difference better than 95% of the time.

BTW: That url came back 404 Not Found when I tried it, which is what I was after.


"Do not go where the path may lead,
go instead where there is no path and leave a trail."
– Ralph Waldo Emerson

My blog: The (New) Eclectic Dragonfly. Some of my stuff at CafePress!

Joined: March 3, 2002
Posts: 4378
Submissions: 79
Location: tres piedras, new mexico

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Posted on Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:58 pm
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yes, i can see the benefits of allowing the "check out my site" posts. hmm.. i wonder.. are sticky and announcement threads sorted by type and then date? or only by date.. we could have the rules stuck at the top.. "small guy" posts announced (and let sit for 2 weeks).. after which time they were turned into regular posts sorted by date.. all professional sellers (even on the small scale like martin) would havbe to make regular posts..

hmm.. it sounds confusing, and we;d need an admin or two for that.. the job would probably require a workload somewhere between weaves and gallery admin jobs.. just an idea on how we can use the system available to us now.. emphasize non professional posts, while allowing pros to post things.

there are aspects that i don't like about that idea.. someone probably has a better one.

kim


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

Joined: November 23, 2002
Posts: 648
Submissions: 15

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Posted on Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:09 pm
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i would voulenteer my time to such a section; thanks to admins in all the sections doing such a good job, not a whole lot for me to do right now. Very Happy


thousands of rings, sure chance of slip 'n jab, what are we watin' for?

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