Bullet proof chainmaille and armor plates
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Joined: May 27, 2005
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Bullet proof chainmaille and armor plates
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Posted on Sun Oct 02, 2005 2:39 pm
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What sort of weave and plate combo am I looking at to stop the standard 22 calibar pistol(weakest of pistols)... and how about the higher grade weapons..?
can metal weaves and plate stop bullets, like 'professsional' bullet proof gear can?
As in, can a 10 gauge dragon weave mail, worn over 1/4" thick stanless steel, high quality metal plating scale mail or whole peice armor, really stop a bullet.
sorry for the run ons.
I'm just curious, I'm looking to be the next batman.....
JK!!
But foreal... I am Coif LoL

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Posted on Sun Oct 02, 2005 3:28 pm
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Oh sure, you can totally do this. Use any dense weave you like, just use mithril as your material, not steel. Also, it will have to be woven by dwarves and gnomes from the magical land of Farie and overseen by the unicorn lord...... Rolling Eyes

No, maille will not stop a bullet, and to attempt to do so no matter how much plating or what gauge of wire you use would be completely irresponsible. Anyone that tells you different is just as irresponsible.

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Posted on Sun Oct 02, 2005 3:50 pm
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It is not impossible to stop bullets with chainmail, but you would have to put too much work into it, and it would be far to risky, as the person above stated.

And on another subject. I wouldn't wear maille over plates. The idea of plate mail is not so much stopping projectiles as deflecting them. Swords and arrows will, with luck, slide off the surface. Maille is worn under the plate to make the skin harder to penetrate, if an attack should make it through the plate. And it is a lot easier to cover joints in maille. If you put the maille over the plate, and not under it, it will catch the weapon, thus taking away the main advantage of the plate.

This is just how I Think it works. I might be wrong.

And do not ever go out into the streets and think that you are invoulnerable. You aren't, not even in a bulletproof vest. Thinking or hoping that you are is only another weakness.


Firngrod

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Posted on Sun Oct 02, 2005 6:27 pm
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I imagine a tightly woven sheet of HP 3-1 sheet 6 made from inch thick rings would do the trick for the weaker stuff. Of course then you have metal chunks flying off in random directions. Don't try it.

Joined: September 15, 2005
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Posted on Sun Oct 02, 2005 9:03 pm
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I would like to see someone experiment with this, that is, taking small patches of different weaves, different materials, different gauges and IDs and taking before and after photos of the patch, secured to a wood backing, or maybe to a squash or something.

I would, except for the fact I own no guns. Maybe with the help of some friends.

Also, wearing maille over a 1/4" thick plate would definitely stop a .22 bullet, simply because a 1/4" thick steel plate will stop smaller firearms anyhow.

As for chainmaille... I imagine even if you got a dense enough weave with a strong enough material that the bullet wouldn't penetrate, it'd still be kind of like being sucker-punched with a buick, because the thing about chainmaille is it's flexible. Not so good against weapons which pierce. Hence all the specialized javelins the Romans developed.

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Posted on Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:37 am
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Thank you for your opinions
I heard in the 'wild wild west' outlaws and sherifs would wear thick steel plates under their clothes...
such practices were deemed 'un-honorable' by the 'code of war'
But aparently they stopped bullets just fine.

I do think you are correct, plate should always be worn over mail if they are used in combination.

I'm not looking to commit crimes or become invincible, just try and understand the psyics of a gun shot into plate/and or chainmail.... to perhaps increase my odds to survive if I join up with the military...
I imagine the weight added by metal bullet proof gear would be way too much to handle for jungle or long march warfare.... which is why we have tefflon and other lighter alternatives( but they cost SO much $$)

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Posted on Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:47 am
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Well your kind of half right. When decent fire arms came of age, the armour of the time was completely unable to deal with the fundimental change in physics of the projectile. Up until that point the only person who could throw an object of that size at that speed was a Welsh bowman with a 150 pound pull longbow. (If not more, check out some of the balistics tests they did on some of the bows they pulled out of the Mary Rose).

This took years of training. There is a old proverb "any dam fool can pull a trigger" true, you don't need years of training and to be abnormally built to fire a gun. With enough money you can equip an entire army with enough firepower to have the penetrating power of Welsh archers (if not the accuracy) So a fair few of them blow themselves up in the process? Grab the next surf, and off you go again. There is also another small physics issue that puts firearms above chain and plate armour. Fragmentation.

When a bullet hits a plate (more so if it hits chain) There is a hell of a lot of force hitting a very small point of metal. This force has to go somewhere (usually straight through) Lead is a soft metal so it will deform on impact as it carries through the plate it takes some of that plate with it into the "soft body" each one of those fragmented objects carries a vacum pocket behind it doing further damage. Suddenly your knight in shining armour is having his armour used as additional shrapnel. Thicker plating only went so far and was way too heavy (See Ned Kelly). Modern vests destroy themeslves taking as much of the energy out of the projectile as possible, even if they successful you'll still have a hospital stay. (the energy has to go some where after all).

Life ain't like the movies. Oh an if your squaring off against someone with a modern rifle (hunting or sniper) run away (preferably zig zagging) those things can chuck a round through 3 walls and still kill something.

To sum up.
Bullet Vs. chainmail = Bullet.
Med Plate Vs. Bullet = Bullet.
Bullet proof vest Vs. bullet = Depends on the calibre.
Solution? Don't get in the way of bullets if you can possibly help it!

Chainmail turns a sharp hit into a blunt hit, if your being stabbed it turns a knife into a short iron bar being jabbed at your ribs. You will be injured accordingly. Even against melee weapons it was far from perfect, it was however, better than F-all. Against bullets however, it is worse than F-all. Statistically you have a better chance of taking a bullet and surviving starkers, than you do if your wearing chainmail. Sobering but true.

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Posted on Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:34 pm
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Stopping a .22 with chainmaille isn't that challenging. I personally wouldn't stand in the way of it, but I know 14G 3/8" E 1in6 will stop it. I shot a piece myself a while ago. Caught the bullet inbetween the rings. The piece was severly damaged and wouldn't be able to take another shot in the general area unless it was repaired. But it's possible. I've seen .308 bullets bounce off windshields (but chipped it...it was an accident) so it depends on what and how the peice will take the abuse. But all a BULLET-RESISTANT!!!! vest is, is a bunch of metal plates. Unless Kevlar, Kevlar is a woven fabric.

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Posted on Mon Oct 03, 2005 10:28 pm
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Chainmail and bulletproof vests work about the same way and do roughly the same thing.

When a bullet hits a vest those 30ish beautiful layers of kevlar deform with the impact sucking the energy out of the bullet.

When you hit chainmail with a club or blade, the maille gets pulled towards the strike just like the kevlar.


As for 1/4 inch scale, mayble you'll stop a 22, maybe not. Its hard enough to stop AP bullets with an inch slab of steel, much less any bullet with little moving plates.

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Posted on Mon Oct 03, 2005 11:48 pm
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you know what I'd like ot see is a suit of armor that used kevlar plates (are what ever the plates they use for the helmets) I know their working on some kind of armor like this, but I'm unsure wha it looks like or how far they are with it or even if it will be light enough to use in combat.

and I've seen some links about this, you can stop small arms fire with chainmale but it would just be better to used kevlar unless you think that our going to get in close combat that I'd used a mix of it, either kevlar over chain or under not sure what would have better stoping power.

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Posted on Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:07 am
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Dragnar:
Kevlar plates are a bit like fiberglass if I remember right. To wear that without padding would be... irresponsible to say the least. Kevlar (and steel) helmets are ment to stop shrapnal and glancing bullets. Hit full on with a millitary round will defeat the armor (well, thats the case for steel, not sure about kevlar).

That also sorta answers the second question. Chain over kevlar. Three reasons that I can see. Padding for taking blunt/cutting blows, maille to protect the kevlar from being cut and ruining the vest, and you can repair a peace of maille but you can't stitch the vest back together.

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Posted on Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:24 am
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Kuragari wrote:
Stopping a .22 with chainmaille isn't that challenging. I personally wouldn't stand in the way of it, but I know 14G 3/8" E 1in6 will stop it. I shot a piece myself a while ago. Caught the bullet inbetween the rings.

What was backing the maille? How far did it deflect on impact? I would not trust results for maille hanging free to apply when the maille is against something halfway solid.

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Posted on Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:16 am
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I don't have much experience with shooting guns at maille (Except the time my sister popped a couple rounds with a paintball gun (Which, BTW, the maille worked amazingly)) or plate. I would tend to say lose the maille and go with 1/4 thick high grade stainless. That will be incredibly strong.
However, there is a reason cops don't wear plates of metal that weight 15 pounds. (I don't know about our military, but I would not expect it) It's because they weigh...um...more than what is acceptable. I would tend to say dodging bullets is going to increase your chance of survival over hoping that the 50 pounds of armor you have weighing on your chest and abdomin will be your salvation.
By the way, it will not be like HALO armor (which is acually ceramic plates) over a kevlar-like fabric being worn by augumented superhumans who can lift 500 pounds without armor

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Posted on Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:43 am
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MoodyMailleMan:
Army uses ceramic plates over kevlar. They not huge, but they cover the vitals Rolling Eyes

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Posted on Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:45 am
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and they are plenty heavy, my brothers body armour weighs about 20lbs, not terrible but would still make ya tierd.


"I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to... I guess."
"And remember, if it aint broke, you aint tryin'" - Red Green

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