I need your help on copyright
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Joined: April 02, 2008
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Location: Lincoln, NE

I need your help on copyright
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Posted on Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:56 pm
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I have had a member request that I add a copyright image to their gallery submissions. We have never done this before, except in one case where a lawsuit was involved, and I am unsure if this is in line with our communities wishes. In the wishes to be transparent I have opened up the issue to the community.

Please give your opinion, I am purposely leaving out the member's name so they can remain anonymous if they wish. They have given me permission to share the PM's that we have exchanged if it is deemed necessary for the conversation.

This can be a tough topic so PLEASE word things carefully and put yourself in others shoes. I would like to make this a productive and civil conversation that the community can benefit from. I do not want to push the conversation in any way so I will tell you my opinion later to help foster BOTH sides of the conversation.


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Joined: August 30, 2010
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Posted on Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:04 pm
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I need more information, and I believe This should be handled as fast as we can.

All my images are under my copyright, or I have obtained a license (Anders Stegen gave me free right to display my stiff, as long as he was credited).

Exactly What is being requested?


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Posted on Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:14 pm
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This is a bit vague at the moment. What I am understanding is the user wants to add an image to the gallery under their account that has copyright protection owned by someone else. If that is correct relevant details would be if the user has documented permission from the copyright holder and if there is an adequate mechanism in place for notating the copyright.

Those questions aside, on the assumption the details are worked out, I see the question as "is the community ok with adding copyright protected media to the site where user-owned media is the norm?". Recent events lead me to think we would do best to move away from copyright-protected media and user-owned submissions as a model on the whole and this issue would just add another layer to that issue.

In short, I don't actually think its a big issue but if it needs a yes or no I would vote against.

Joined: March 10, 2015
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Posted on Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:32 pm
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MusicMan, I think you are being too vague here.

The specific facts:
1) Some images I created and submitted to M.A.I.L are licensed under a Creative Commons BY-SA open license. Specifically, this one: (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/)

2) I attempted to edit those image descriptions to add a link to the license.

Joined: August 30, 2010
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Posted on Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:44 pm
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StudioCastile wrote:
This is a bit vague at the moment. What I am understanding is the user wants to add an image to the gallery under their account that has copyright protection owned by someone else. If that is correct relevant details would be if the user has documented permission from the copyright holder and if there is an adequate mechanism in place for notating the copyright.

Those questions aside, on the assumption the details are worked out, I see the question as "is the community ok with adding copyright protected media to the site where user-owned media is the norm?". Recent events lead me to think we would do best to move away from copyright-protected media and user-owned submissions as a model on the whole and this issue would just add another layer to that issue.

In short, I don't actually think its a big issue but if it needs a yes or no I would vote against.


As a swede, I cannot transfer copyright. I can only license it away, but I retain the intrinsic right.

The same goes for anders stegen, who has I have an oral license deal with. He has given me permission to publish his photographs of my items, as long as he’s credited. Two of these images are already in the gallery, and more are in the queue.

I do not have the right to sublicense those images under anything other than the current Mail terms.

The gallery should in my eyes be on the current terms, but I see no problem with EricN publishing images under CC, certainly as we already have such in the gallery.

And CC-BY-SA is a good license. As long as Eric is credited, and any use or derivate work is licensed under CC-BY-SA, it is fully compliant with current Mail terms.


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Posted on Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:55 pm
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Weave with copyright/patent/trademark: mobius ball©.

Is the copyright holder different from the user (author)? (The existing notice explicitly says that gallery submissions are property of the author.)

Whether it be a cooperation that holds the copyright or a different user, I don't like the idea of users submitting content that isn't their own or a cooperation being a user (users get to vote, does that mean that one person can vote on behalf of their cooperation and their personal account?).

EricN wrote:
I attempted to edit those image descriptions to add a link to the license.


This does change the question to "can a member be explicit about the license by giving written permission in the description". I believe this is okay to do.

Summary:
Submitted content must be owned by the one submitting the content.
Descriptions can include a license to act as "written permission" (possibly with restrictions).


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Joined: April 02, 2008
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Posted on Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:18 am
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Yes, I fowled it up! After talking by PM, researching and thinking about this for a couple months I still can't say it correctly. Mad

Do you think it is necessary to put a link to a copyright in a gallery submission or is our current policy enough?


Is there another way we can cover everybody at the same time?


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Joined: March 10, 2015
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Posted on Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:07 am
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MusicMan wrote:
Do you think it is necessary to put a link to a copyright in a gallery submission or is our current policy enough?


It's not a link to a copyright. It's a link to a license. Sorry to split hairs.

When I take the deliberate step to put up a green light for others to copy and reuse some of my creative works, I believe that also reinforces the fact that by default, that light is red. The submission terms only cover what M.A.I.L can do with the content I submit; they don't cover what M.A.I.L's visitors can do with that content. Linking the license is for their benefit.

I also think it's beneficial to be very explicit about licensing. License terms should be explained in simple, accessible language, and Creative Commons does a good job with that. They have a multinational, multijurisdicitonal perspective and provide translations of their licenses in many languages. I recognize the risks in linking to a third-party site, but I have confidence in the Creative Commons organization's continued existence.

Joined: June 20, 2012
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Posted on Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:05 am
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I don't see any problem if someone puts a copyright/licence notice in their images and descriptions.

Submitting someone else's image is fine IF the owner explicitly gave their permission and is properly credited.

I'm not quite sure what the issue is.

MAIL's policy might need a small addition:
All web content © 2000-2018 The Maille Artisans International League (M.A.I.L.). Articles, Weaves, Links, and Gallery submissions are the property of the author(s), and any reproduction requires their express written permission, unless stated otherwise.

Joined: March 3, 2002
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Posted on Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:59 pm
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Adding a CC license should be no problem, I would only have a problem with adding a commercial licence to a submission since M.A.I.L. is a non-commercial organization.

Also, I should point out that my scale flowers have been licensed this way for almost a decade now.

http://www.mailleartisans.org/gallery/gallerydisplay.php?key=5512

http://www.mailleartisans.org/gallery/gallerydisplay.php?key=5513


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Joined: April 02, 2008
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Submissions: 42
Location: Lincoln, NE

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Posted on Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:28 pm
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I think we have an agreement and confirmation that it has been done in the past and acceptable by the community. I would like to thank you for the great discussion and now if there is ever a member who has a problem with adding this onto a submission we have a discussion that we can point to for why we do things.

Again, I apologize for not being clear in the beginning. (Just don't tell my Dad how poor my English skill are, he was an English teacher for 35 years. Sad ) I was trying to step lightly on the topic because something like this has gotten me burned in the past, but that only muddied the waters. Thank you for understanding.


Once you stop learning, you stop living, so...
Ask questions.
Try new things.
Share what you know.

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Posted on Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:08 pm
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lorenzo wrote:
Adding a CC license should be no problem, I would only have a problem with adding a commercial licence to a submission since M.A.I.L. is a non-commercial organization.

Do you have an example of what you mean by a "commercial licence"? The license in question here (CC BY-SA 4.0) permits commercial use.

Joined: March 3, 2002
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Posted on Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:34 pm
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A commercial licence is one that doesn't allow for free use. Your licence terms do allow for others to use your work commercially, whereas a traditional commercial licence would disallow that unless some form of payment is made to you.

Because commercial licences grant exclusive rights in return for monetary compensation they have no place at M.A.I.L. This site was founded specifically as a place for learning and discussion outside of the influence of the business entities that still control all other forums related to our hobby.


www.mailletec.com

Y'know, that might just be crazy enough to work!

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