Best SCA armor
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Best Armor for SCA
Lorcia Segmentata
20%
 20%  [ 3 ]
Brigandine
20%
 20%  [ 3 ]
Chainmaille
46%
 46%  [ 7 ]
Other
13%
 13%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 15

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Posted on Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:42 pm
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If you start with plate armour I recommend Paul Blackwell's Basic Armouring. This is a very good an well written introduction in plate armouring. All basic techniques are described in there.


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Posted on Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:29 pm
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Konstinian, you are 110% correct in that the sketch looks a little inexperienced, I am not actually in the SCA yet, i am planning on joining, i just want my facts strait and have a nice idea of what my armor will look like,

I have some experience with sword fighting though, just not in armor, the closest thing to armor i have worn in combat was a costume grade hulbergon, usually i fight with nothing exept the cloths on my back

I designed the armor off of how well you can move it, becuase that is my fighting style, so for me those front and back platebodys are a big no no because most of my parrys and attacks need me to be close to the ground, and im not short.


"Who is to say that I am who I say I am if no one knows who I am not to become but me."
-Azrenn the Draconian

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Posted on Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:18 am
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Hmm, in that case Az I recommend you assume you'll be starting from zero, Square One and no other. Unlike, say, Dagorhir, the SCA allows head hits and your best defense, really, is to keep your spine pretty much erect virtually all the time; crouching forward means your opponents will head-shot you right into the dust with the monotonous regularity of an alarm bell's clapper ringing. Back upright and knees well flexed and feet somewhat apart is the recipe. It also maintains your balance against the weight of your armor and any change of your center of gravity -- which effects you'd notice right about the time it screws up some extreme move that worked pretty well out of armor. Being balanced equals being maneuverable without falling on your iron butt! Overcommit by leaning, in any direction, and you can blunder into literally all kinds of unfortunate situations, and be chided. It is very bad to blunder over toddlers; they aren't armored, and they are around.

Sword fighting in armor and sword fighting without armor are actually two separate sets of moves and tactics. The SCA will teach methods for in armor; it will be a whole 'nother game from what you've done so far even in a light haburgeon or byrnie.

Your height will give you extra range, which is useful at any altitude you can reach.

You'll be operating a weapons system, first off: its offensive arm is a sword and its defensive component is your shield, and you need to use both equally to best effect. In a little while after you've shown the Marshal you understand how to shelter effectively both behind and under a shield, which is the core of what makes you an authorized fighter in Weapon & Shield so you're eligible for the lists and tournaments, you may take up study of polearm and weapon-only forms. Doing these only after you've a few months' experience under your belt will enhance your ability to deal with these forms' lesser defensive capability -- they require more fighting skill to bring off well, but they are very powerful on the offense, having two hands on the weapon and usually greater effective range too. It's all tradeoffs; every arm has its strengths.

Go at it methodically; never let yourself be impatient. You'll develop a favorite form soon enough, but don't overdo there; the fighter of well rounded skills is the fighter most respected, and the most capable on the field. This is no bad thing in a Society dedicated among other things to the pursuit of honorable behavior, and dedicated to esteeming that honor. A Knight of the Society for Creative Anachronism (KSCA) is no mere brawler, but is also a student of the sciences and arts, both liberal and fine -- one or more of these things, again with the aim of developing a well rounded sort of Renaissance man, in a number of senses including the punning. SCAdia is rife with puns and jests. The Heralds are their unofficial keepers.

Some of the very best helmets around for fighting in are the late-fourteenth-century bascinets. An SCA bargrill visor will be the best for a newb fighter -- unrivaled seeing and breathing, and the helmet type presents glancing surfaces to sword strikes hardly equalled by any other hat, particularly at entry level prices.

The two most popular helmet types for beginner home builders working in steel for their first few armor projects are 13th-c. barrelhelms (also miscalled greathelms, which are their lineal 14th-c. descendants) and 7th-11th-c. spangenhelms, whose forms and shapes are simple and may be constructed readily enough with few tools and modest skills. Particularly the barrel helm, which looks mostly like a homicidal bucket -- ominous looking thing. These can both be employed in company with that mid-fourteenthish gambeson I detailed above, especially if you lengthen its skirts to the knee (fourteenth century versions would be no longer than a bit past mid thigh unless they were behind a 14th-c. hauberk with a 5/8 sleeve). While easier to build than a bascinet, neither helm type presents as good a glancing surface, the barrelhelm being rather the weakest in this regard because of its corners all the way around. It actually worked better against steel, edged swords than in the SCA hit-game.

Google on "Lentner" also: it is a sort of latter-fourteenth gambeson or fighting jacket, sometimes quite wasp waisted sometimes maybe not, occasionally belted in but not always, with huge bagpipe sleeves. It is a stylish article, a bit strange to modern eyes, but with quite a lot of panache, having a because-I-can dash to it. Your hard arm armor can hide completely inside the sleeves. Sometimes a globose 14th-c. breastplate would be worn over the Lentner. (Capitalized because the word is German)

Yeah, I favor late fourteenth a lot, for its relative simplicity. The more elaborated forms of the fifteenth century were even more perfected as to protection against sharps, particularly once they got around to inventing real pauldrons (took a long time, that did), and they have a lot of "wow!" to them -- but this stuff is much more expensive to get, and demanding of piles of time and skill to make well. The armor of the sixteenth, more of the same, plus further refinements and inventions and also sheer style. Sixteenth century is the sort of thing we imagine when we think of knights in armor -- pauldrons, various shapes of breastplates both creased and boxy, close-helmets and pickadils. Maximilian, Greenwich armours, Milanese (this was Negroli's time) and yes, brigandines for just regular guys -- if they weren't fighting in breast-and-backs.


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Posted on Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:19 am
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interesting, i also preferr the late 14th century. I guess I will see what the best armor for me is later, but I have a question on personas, if i use my name (Azrenn), will it be allowed?

Just to clairify, Azrenn is not my birth name, it is a name dirrived off of two others.


"Who is to say that I am who I say I am if no one knows who I am not to become but me."
-Azrenn the Draconian

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Posted on Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:49 am
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Your persona name should be a medieval name in some language either European or of some culture European explorers came in contact with before 1603. Unless it's Basque (and you can show it's both Basque and used in the Middle Ages or Renaissance), Azrenn seems altogether unlikely to pass.

I mind me of some no-clue fluffybunny kid who wanted his gamer-name, "Quendor" for an SCA name. Time was the SCA did accept specifically mortal human Tolkienian names, but no more; hasn't been that way for a long time now. Poor Quendor got turned down flat. Per Tolkien, the name would seem dubious even for an Elf -- the quen- element seems more appertaining to a culture than a person. A guy I knew in Society called himself "Nomad the Barbarian," and simply couldn't register such a name with Laurel King of Arms (the SCA's boss Herald and his office in charge of organizing this stuff) -- "Nomad" has never been a name in any culture, howbeit that it's a noun, and nobody ever had a surname like "Barbarian," same way. He rather sulked about that too. His device would have been okay: Or, a Viking longship [drakkar] proper in fess.


Follow real European medieval naming practices, please. Likewise the names have to be something human, as known from some record or other. Some surnames may suit somebody's sense of the dramatic or the heavy-metal-portentious, but weren't used by anybody; some guy once tried "... of Fenris" as a surname for some presumably Norse guy. Well, no: Fenris was a supernal monster, of a thoroughly ominous disposition, and no self-respecting Norseman was going to use such an ekename or surname. "Of This" or "Of That" names were actually quite rare and associated with aristocracy and but thinly even there. Henry VIII of England could be addressed by the name of his realm, as dukes and earls also might, but he grew up and into adulthood as plain Henry Tudor, of a good Welsh family. Thoroughly aristocratic, too.

There are entire websites dedicated to just such name lists that the Society maintains. About the best way to use them is to pick a country and a time that you really like and have always liked, so you can live with a name and persona you really enjoy for many years. There's no hurry on this, take your time. Try things on for a while. Every SCA group has an officer known as a Herald Pursuivant whose job it is to help you with coming up with a really medieval name (yes, to aid our collective fantasy with underpinnings of historical plausibility), your device for your shield (it becomes your arms officially when you've done enough to be awarded the official Award of Arms, usually a SCAdian's first honor from the Society) and a few other things related to knowing who's who in the local Barony, Principality, and Kingdom.

And if the short list of preferred periods and places refuses to go below two attractive alternatives, there is nothing wrong with an alternate persona. Some people do this. I remember one ingenious fellow whose alternate persona was a descendant of his main persona, a grandkid, named after his grandpa.

But a Spanish black velvet doublet guy named Hrolfr is absurd.

I use my persona name as my handle here, and a good bit of the time I use it completely in Russian rather than in the translated form I use here, and answer to "Konstantín Krasnii." Much less a Russian name than a Russian saint-name plus a nickname, but it was okay by the Society standards prevailing in 1977.


'The Minstrel Boy to the War is gone...'

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Posted on Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:20 pm
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im wondering what are some of the more rare origins of personas like are there alot of people that are "roman" in the sca, if you dont understand the question then just say so.


"Who is to say that I am who I say I am if no one knows who I am not to become but me."
-Azrenn the Draconian

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Posted on Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:33 am
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Well, Romans of the fifth century are quite period, and the decay of Rome after its fifth-century fall took a couple centuries more -- a Dusk Age before the Dark Ages. As far as anybody living around the Mediterranean at the time was concerned, the Roman Empire remained a going concern after the fifth century anyway -- in the eastern provinces ruled from what was then called Constantinople after the emperor who founded it and which came to be called Byzantium, and was always pretty Greek vice Roman anyway.

It continuously retained its political identity until 1453, when the Ottomans took it down, having previously set up shop in the greater part of Asia Minor.

Anyway, a Roman would be early-period. Depending on which fall of Rome you want to count from, 410 AD or 476 AD, there's the beginning of SCA period, and it runs across all of Europe until Elizabeth I of England's death in 1603, one of the big watersheds between one era and a succeeding one. It would have been somewhere in the seventeenth century anyway. The SCA used to run to circa 1650, as the execution of Charles II of England was another big watershed event, majorly altering the concept of how to arrive at legitimate government in a way even the unfortunate King John never did, but they've pulled back, apparently because the greater part of the seventeenth century was really the beginnings of modern times much more than the truly medieval or Middle Ages.

A long and indirect answer, I know, but about the best one I've got.


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Posted on Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:45 am
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Now as for origins of real rarity... it's really all about the individual member's interests. Sixteenth-century Japanese personae are so popular that we get more than a handful of strawberry-blond, freckled samurai running around in hakama behind a Japanese persona name. I can remember a Central Asian persona, a Mongol with brown hair and blue eyes, there's a knight who's an Aztec and dresses the part, and there's me, a WASP if ever there was one, who was studying Russian in college and took on a Russian persona, which wasn't at all easy to research in the 1970s, and is frankly still pretty vague except as to his century, which my own mundane sojurning among the Turk has me fixing Konstantin's times as being a young man in 1453 and living through most of the fifteenth century.

Vikings, Scots, and Irishmen are quite common. English personae, some more vividly realized than others, probably outnumber the Germans and definitely outnumber the Frenchmen. Spaniards are still rare... we may have more purported Arabs.


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Posted on Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:23 pm
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Interesting, well at the moment my persona is going like this (this also explains the name azrenn):

I was born in Rome in the 1400's (not finalized the year yet) but at the age of five I was taken from my family and was found on the streets in the Islamic area by an arab man and taken into their family at the age of six where I was named Rayhan (favored by God) because of my barely alive state. I grew up there, was taught to read and write by my father, and fought in the crusades at the age of 13 (on the arab side) but I was captured and deported to china as a slave.

In china I was forced to fight in battles on the front lines, I was a great fighter and was always one of the few front line fighters to survive so they called me SHI-TIEN (lord of death). When they had no use for me, I was set free and I traveled back to where I grew up at the age of 25. But my "mom" had died of old age and my "father" died in battle.I stayed there for a while and while I was there I adoped the name SHI-TIEN but translated it to arabic which is Azreal.

After staying there for a fre months I set out on an exploration, after about a year of traveling I ended up in what is now modern day algeria. One of my followers was cought in a boar trap while walking and some of the people came to see what they had caught. They found him with us and we stayed with them, they asked my name and I said Azreal, my translator that was with me said it in algerian and they went crazy (for lack of a better word) thinking that I was there to take them to the afterlife.

So then they re-named me Azrenn (they came up with it when they heard my name in arabic and changed a couple letters). Later I sailed back to Rome after hearing of their greatness and lived there till the "present".

And that is the extreamy long story explaining my name. What do you think? Do you think that would be enough to convince them to let me have the name?


"Who is to say that I am who I say I am if no one knows who I am not to become but me."
-Azrenn the Draconian

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Posted on Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:27 am
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Well, it's a fun tale. But the College of Heralds has seen exactly this kind of novel-writing before, and way too much of it, and their view would be very unsympathetic. Your story really does sound like a giant strain upon the thread of plausibility. Not our game, dude. We do try to be a nonprofit educational society, not a noneducational fantasy fest -- any more than we admittedly are already. Maybe a generation ago you might have gotten this through, but that was then, and standards have been raised since.

They research name and device submissions for medieval accuracy at the Kingdom and Laurel level; at these research sessions they do, they'd wonder (privately but aloud) why your persona didn't go to Antarctica while he was at it. (Discovered the place early!) It would have been every bit as plausible. In the thirteenth century, the trip to China took Marco Polo how many years? And for those times he and his father Maffeo made pretty good time back and forth over the Silk Road. Travel in the Middle Ages was more or less hellish, less than safe, and a big pain in the... feet. At least. All this would have occupied so much of your persona's time he'd have been pretty unlikely to do anything else... and he might well have died on the road of bandits or illness. Travel wasn't all that much better by the fifteenth, except perhaps at sea as ships were slowly improving. And even at that, ship speed wasn't improving, not yet.

But you could have a lot of fun writing the novel and selling it to Ballantine Books and it might make you some money! Which is always neat. You're creative enough.

The CoH would really tell you to do something else rather than try gluing name elements together to come up with a Finno-Hottentot. I know that's not literally what you're trying to do, but what the CoH is after is a medieval name that can be documentably proven from medieval sources, which your novel won't do. They're after something medievally plausible. I cannot stress this enough. They don't really mind "border stories," e.g., somebody of like Welsh-English, or Franco-Burgundian parentage, that sort of short-range thing. Your local Pursuivant can either brief you or get the word from some Herald who can (heralds pursuivant vary a lot in experience).

If you want Chinese, take Chinese. If you want Arabic, take Arabic. Chinese-Arabic is a little too like Finno-Hottentot. Can you document "Azrenn" in so many letters as a medieval (c. 500-1600 AD) Arabic name? This is what you'd have to do -- they'll not go for "they changed it from Azreal," but would instead say, "if Azreal was a name for a human being and not just the Angel of Death, why not Azreal in any case?"

What Islamic area? Did your foundling take ship to Egypt or something?

In the fifteenth century, well, the Crusades proper weren't going on, but instead some related post-Crusades push-back from the Ottomans -- the Hospitallers pushed out of Cyprus and retreating to Malta where the Ottomans couldn't budge them, if I have my century right.

The Crusades that really amounted to anything successful from Christendom's point of view were all twelfth-century and into the early thirteenth. Then the Mussulmans succeeded in pushing the Christian Europeans out of Palestine and southern Turkey, forcing upon the Crusaders a long retreat. Acre was their last holdout, and then they withdrew to Cyprus. Eventually the Ottomans followed them there too.

Border stories in the Arab world and the Middle East can be tricky things too -- watch for centuries-old traditional animosities across linguistic borders which may well get in the way of crossborder romancing and nookie. The Arabic speakers weren't necessarily friendly with the Turkic speakers of Asia Minor, even though in latter centuries it all became one imperial Caliphate -- and then split into two or more caliphates. Persians and Arabs didn't mix much, and usually fought when they did. Afghanis are mostly Muslim now, but nobody could tame the Afghan valleys. Muslims cut their way into the Indian subcontinent. Etcetera, on eastward, in a hopscotching sort of progress as far as the southern Philippines.


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Posted on Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:52 am
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I truely see your point, and fyi, I do write fiction books, im working on a series i started a few months ago (about 6). The irony in this is almost to much to bear, cause it turns out it is about a charachter named Azrenn.

I actually have alot of fact to back up my persona's story, but I will get to that later.


"Who is to say that I am who I say I am if no one knows who I am not to become but me."
-Azrenn the Draconian

Maille Code V1.0 T5.2 R5.1 Fbyz Mfe.s Wcs Cjaw G1.6/0.3 |25/1 Pa Dacdj S06

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Posted on Fri May 27, 2016 4:32 am
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Azrenn wrote:
well thanks for all your help, I took alot of the advice and so I am constructing lorcia segmentata out of a huge cardboard box I had lynig around to see how nice it moves. one of my eirlier ideas was to make a kinda transition between maille and lorcia, like taking steel plates and attatching them to maille so it has the same absourbency of maill with the rigidness of lorcia.

-Azrenn the Draconian

Ill get a picture of my idea here soon

Scale mail might be a good in between. it sounds like thats what you are looking for

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Posted on Fri May 27, 2016 6:13 am
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AND IT'S VICTORESNOX FOR THE RESURRECT!

Everyone get this urge to improve mail, don't they?

And by the time they've improved it all they possibly can -- they've constructed a corselet of plate!

Aw, hell -- hang a lance-rest off the right side while we're at it. Taces and then tassets off the bottom edge. Articulated gorget accessorizing the top. All doable in cold metal as long as you know where you need to pound on it.

The biggest exponents of mail-plus in history were Central Asians, and Turks, maybe Indians too. The most effective such things were somewhat over half plates of various shapes, joined together by a few rows of links between the plates. Belt-and-suspenders mounted types might layer up in a light mailshirt topped with a char-aina buckled on over it.

I like brigandine. A lot. It's, like, *all* floating articulations. I've never tried to make any.

Azrenn never did come back to post any pix. Wonder if he carried this SCA thing through. I fear I rather gave him some discouraging words that let the air out of his headful of fantasticalness.


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Posted on Fri Jun 03, 2016 4:38 pm
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To join in the new conversation: I think part of the problem is that "best" is entirely individualized.

Fighting style is going to come into play a LOT here. Certain types of armor move better than others, and if you do a lot of Gumby stuff (ie, bending/flexing to get around blows/defenses) you want something that bends a lot. Sure, this generally means hits hit harder (technically, are not dissipated as much), but if you don't get hit that's not a problem. In contrast, if you favor a more static fighting style, your armor bending and flexing isn't going to do you much good--you will want something that can dissipate the force of the blows you will inevitably take.

Fighting style also dictates what you need armored and what you don't. I don't get thumped in the chest all that often, or on the shoulders--but that shield-side wrap used to connect EVERY. BLOODY. TIME. So I skipped the shoulder armor, and focused on the lower body. In contrast, I've got a friend who seldom gets hit below the waste (he's short), but his shoulders get beat to a pulp. His armor covers the opposite of what mine does.

I once borrowed another guy's armor. He was a LOT stronger than me, and his armor was built accordingly. My scrawny frame did not do so well in that armor; took me two weeks for my body to recover (armor slap, the weird muscles his armor demanded I use, etc). I'd been fighting for a while at that point, so it's not like I was completely unfit.

My point is, any quest for a "best" armor is going to inevitably run into the fact that "best" is, at best, contextual. And that's not even getting into field kit vs. tournament kit and the like, which can be different because of the different ways you have to move.

When I was a new fighter, I got a barrel. Not "pickle barrel armor", but a 55 gallon barrel. I made my armor out of that. It was ugly, it didn't flex at ALL, it was a pain to put on, it defended areas I didn't care about and not areas I did--and by the time I was done wearing it I knew enough about my fighting style and what I wanted on the field to make my next armor much better. That's what I always encourage new fighters to do: don't worry about it being perfect, or even good, just get something good enough, throw a tabard or tunic over it, and get out there. In a month you'll know what works for you. In three months, it'll all change anyway. Very Happy

Konstantin the Red:
Quote:
I fear I rather gave him some discouraging words that let the air out of his headful of fantasticalness.


I was taught that the SCA is a society, not a LARP. We don't have complex back stories; we make our own stories. Better to get that out in the open early rather than later! (My wife and I DID have a bit of trouble figuring out how a member of the Teutonic Order and a Romani ended up together, but "Spoils of war" cover many a sin!)

Like most newbs, when I joined I had rather grandious ideas of what I would be. The first laurel I met deflated them rather quickly. She looked at my first tunic (actually, the first batch about six of us made), declared that their existence offended her, and we spent the next several hours sewing shirts that she would allow us to wear. Compared to that night, you were downright polite! Very Happy

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