Welding Maille
View previous topic | View next topic >
Post new topic Reply to topic
M.A.I.L. Forum Index -> Knitting Circle
   
Author Message

Joined: March 27, 2002
Posts: 3496
Submissions: 1

Reply with quote
Posted on Fri May 23, 2014 4:52 am
Link to Post: Link to Post

Spartan1388 wrote:
I am lucky to have an actual door that goes to the back balcony apartment, at the back of the building and into the open space at the center of the block.

. . .

Riveting is possible, but I would be a first class donkey to do it in an apartment, because the pounding is going to annoy the Hell out of my neighbors and bring the police at my door. Laughing


I should address this. Mail rivets are tiny. You can hammer, but you don't need to hammer very much, and you can do it entirely with leverage if your "setting tongs" -- which you will have to make for yourself somehow -- are long enough in the handles or have compound leverage like bolt-cutters or aviation sheetmetal snips. A bolt cutter assembled with bolts in its hinges, and not rivets, would be a good basis for such a tool, in fact. You can take the cutter jaws out of it and substitute some jaws you'll have to have some shop make for you, I think. But they are simple pieces.

If the only way that works for you is to hammer the setting tongs a little, a soft-faced hammer/mallet can help with not making a lot of noise, so the neighbors can't hear you.

Mail rivets are tiny things. Pin rivets are indeed as thin as pins, for the early-historical sorts of mail -- Roman, and Völkerwanderung and some Viking. A bit of Viking era mail has been taken apart and shows rivets made in a shape like tiny whisk-brooms! Around the fourteenth century in Germany, it got easier with the "triangular rivet," a bit of flat metal, snipped out of a narrow ribbon of metal either cut from sheet, or of round wire hammered into a flat ribbon. (Which means you can make mail with absolutely no waste of wire, at all!) Imagine a tiny, 1/48-scale model of a slice of pizza. It's about 1,6mm across at its wide end, fitted into a slot-like hole 1,6mm across. Only one side of the overlaps of the link-ends needs this 1,6mm slot; the other side can have less. The setting tongs have one place on their jaws to push a rivet into the rivet hole, and the pointy end of the rivet goes into a small hole drilled in the opposite jaw, so now there is this small tooth of metal hanging down from the link. Then you move to another part of the setting tongs jaws to where there is a very small hollow in the same jaw as the hole is, beside the hole. This little hollow is to upset the pointy end of the rivet into a tiny gumdrop shape. This is better than the end bending over flat, like a bent nail. This is the part of closing the rivet that may need a tap from a hammer on the tong handles. Or may not, if you've been clever with your designing. If you can do it all with leverage, you won't even be as bad as a third class donkey! (There might be a joke about Pinocchio in there somewhere, since he didn't quite turn into a donkey, but I can't make it come.) Coif Cool Smiley


'The Minstrel Boy to the War is gone...'

Joined: May 20, 2014
Posts: 166
Submissions: 0
Location: Athens, GR

Reply with quote
Posted on Fri May 23, 2014 4:06 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

djgm wrote:
Spartan1388 wrote:


Well, in this case I prefer to wait until replicator technology,


earl grey, hot Coif LoL


Picard's and also mine favorite tea.
I am drinking some right now actually. Wink


I had misunderstood many things about riveting. In the video, wire is used and then compressed.
With a similar tool I believe that everyone (who has some tools and 100$) can do it and easily, but flattening the rings will be a problem for those living near other people.
Flattening should be fast, otherwise you are going to waste time, and hammering is the easiest method. A heavier hammer than the one in the video would work better in my opinion, but still, nothing you can do in an apartment.

Maybe some kind of manually operated non-power press, but this is still going to cost a lot to build or buy.

Joined: March 29, 2002
Posts: 410
Submissions: 0

Reply with quote
Posted on Fri May 23, 2014 9:24 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

Konstantin the Red wrote:
Rivet.

Resistance welding can be done and is -- Gordon Osterstrom down in Tucson AZ does welded mail as a business, Welded Chainmail.

The ultimate of ultimates in yield strength in mail links is to make them of annealed spring wire, assemble the piece, then heat treat it, harden & temper.


Two corrections:
1) Tuscon is a lovely city but I have lived and worked in Phoenix AZ for more than 30 years.
2) circular wound graphite fibre composite links are a good 4 times stronger than any possible metallic links. Unfortunately, the current manufacturing process (hand winding in place over a removable bobbin followed by baking in an autoclave to set the binder) is much too slow to be practical but further development ongoing.
Also, lap upset welded spring stainless links are a good bit stronger than heat treated carbon steel (that's what spring wire turns back into as soon as you anneal it) links. The trick is to keep the heat affected zone as small as possible and do a post weld forging operation to re-work harden the weld area


weldedchainmail.com

Joined: May 20, 2014
Posts: 166
Submissions: 0
Location: Athens, GR

Reply with quote
Posted on Sat May 24, 2014 3:20 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

BEHOLD!

My first solder soldered maille!

Soldered with 65% Sn solder and a cr**y iron.

My soldering is bad, I know, and I have left the flux in the rings, so what you see is flux and not a HAZ.



This is 2,2mm galvy rings with 8mm ID.

The three rings you see at the upper left corner are for testing.

Joined: March 3, 2002
Posts: 1000
Submissions: 244

Reply with quote
Posted on Sat May 24, 2014 6:41 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

Not bad, but you can get much better results pretty easily. Hammer your solder wire into flat strips about 2.2 mm wide, then dip the end into flux. Wedge the fluxed end of the solder strip between the ends of the ring and clip off the excess with nail clippers or electronics flush cutters. That technique should give you a nice clean solder line with no messy bulges and no voids.

Are you using an iron instead of a torch? A torch is the fastest way but it's difficult not to have a slight HAZ.


www.mailletec.com

Y'know, that might just be crazy enough to work!

Joined: May 20, 2014
Posts: 166
Submissions: 0
Location: Athens, GR

Reply with quote
Posted on Sat May 24, 2014 7:15 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

I do have a torch, but it is plumber's size and uses MAPP or Propane, which I believe is overkill.
I think you mean the small jeweler's or cook's torches like the one from Dremel, right? I do not have one of those.

I have a 15W iron, the 30W iron I used to weld the rings and a small battery operated, weak iron. I did not bought these tools, my father did. Rolling Eyes

I am interested to get into electronics, and I look forward into buying a better iron. For electronics, not maille.

The iron in this case was a better choice because the rings were galvanized, and I wanted to avoid burning the zinc.


Your method sounds interesting.
If I get it right, I am going to need 95% Sn solder, without flux core and a bottle of solder that you mentioned.
These rings are bolt-cut, so they are like ><. Maybe saw-cut would work better?

Joined: September 30, 2012
Posts: 255
Submissions: 13
Location: Sweden

Reply with quote
Posted on Sat May 24, 2014 7:17 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

I saw earlier in this thread that someone wanted to make a spot welder. I will just chuck this one in here and leave, as I know absolutely nothing about welding and less about building one myself Very Happy

Make a Spot Welder for Cheap!!

I will not be liable to any damage to yourself, others or your equipment though, don't blame me if you blow something up hehe


"When in doubt... C4" - Jamie Hyneman

My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/wpa09
My band: http://www.facebook.com/carnosus

"This is an art form, and we love to be recognized for our own work, and we'd all hope not to be confused with someone else."
- Charon, March 27, 2009

Joined: May 20, 2014
Posts: 166
Submissions: 0
Location: Athens, GR

Reply with quote
Posted on Sat May 24, 2014 7:49 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

Well, to be honest, the ideal to build a welder came when I saw McGyver build one from a power generator in one of the early episodes. (The one with the army ants.) Until then I had the idea that welders are extremely complicated machines. Many things from this series are true, so I searched in the internet and found Grant Thompson's video tutorial and understood that welders are simple. They may kill you, but they are simple.

No, no. I am not going to hold you responsible. I am adult and I believe in personal responsibility. Coif Cool Smiley
If I burn my building, I will blame the electrician who installed the in-wall wiring. Coif LoL

Joined: September 30, 2012
Posts: 255
Submissions: 13
Location: Sweden

Reply with quote
Posted on Sat May 24, 2014 8:38 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

Spartan1388 wrote:
Well, to be honest, the ideal to build a welder came when I saw McGyver build one from a power generator in one of the early episodes. (The one with the army ants.) Until then I had the idea that welders are extremely complicated machines. Many things from this series are true, so I searched in the internet and found Grant Thompson's video tutorial and understood that welders are simple. They may kill you, but they are simple.

No, no. I am not going to hold you responsible. I am adult and I believe in personal responsibility. Coif Cool Smiley
If I burn my building, I will blame the electrician who installed the in-wall wiring. Coif LoL


Oh! McGyver, damn t'was a long time since I watched that show! So many good memories hehe! About the killing part; a lot of things that will kill you are simple, while others are not. A sharp edge will do just fine Coif LoL Sadly, I know this out of experience...

Jokes aside, I do also believe in personal responsibility and everything that it involves. Always blame the electrician. If that doesn't work, blame a cat. That most often works Wink

Wish you all the best with the welding process, by the look of it you seem to have gotten started just fine!


"When in doubt... C4" - Jamie Hyneman

My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/wpa09
My band: http://www.facebook.com/carnosus

"This is an art form, and we love to be recognized for our own work, and we'd all hope not to be confused with someone else."
- Charon, March 27, 2009

Joined: November 25, 2010
Posts: 1729
Submissions: 100
Location: Es-whoy-malth B.C.

Reply with quote
Posted on Sun May 25, 2014 12:33 am
Link to Post: Link to Post

nice patch, looks good. how long did it take you to make?

Joined: May 20, 2014
Posts: 166
Submissions: 0
Location: Athens, GR

Reply with quote
Posted on Sun May 25, 2014 4:03 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

I had the rings ready.
I kept no track of time, but it was like 30 minutes

Joined: March 3, 2002
Posts: 1000
Submissions: 244

Reply with quote
Posted on Tue May 27, 2014 6:30 am
Link to Post: Link to Post

Spartan1388 wrote:


Your method sounds interesting.
If I get it right, I am going to need 95% Sn solder, without flux core and a bottle of solder that you mentioned.
These rings are bolt-cut, so they are like ><. Maybe saw-cut would work better?


The iron will work just fine for low temperature stuff. My technique does work best for saw cut rings but it should also work well for other types as long as they are all consistent. It's mostly a convenient way to make sure that you have exactly the same amount of solder in exactly the right place for every ring.


www.mailletec.com

Y'know, that might just be crazy enough to work!

Joined: May 20, 2014
Posts: 166
Submissions: 0
Location: Athens, GR

Reply with quote
Posted on Wed May 28, 2014 3:19 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

Alright. As soon as I get some solder and flux I am going to try it.

I am currently on search for a microwave oven

Joined: July 11, 2003
Posts: 451
Submissions: 35
Location: Rochester, NY, USA

Reply with quote
Posted on Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:33 am
Link to Post: Link to Post

Spartan1388 wrote:
I am going to try and make a DIY welder when I have the proper transformers and materials, but I would really like to know what the professionals have to say about it.
Scavenge a few microwaves and google "building a welder from microwave" to get an idea of the type of electrical circuit that you'll need for a low-power welder. Spot welding even .0625" steel rings shouldn't take too much to fuse together. If you're in school, find a professor with the requisite skills that would enjoy assisting you with such a project if you want to be safer about it.

Joined: May 20, 2014
Posts: 166
Submissions: 0
Location: Athens, GR

Reply with quote
Posted on Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:01 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

Aberrant Artificer wrote:
Spartan1388 wrote:
I am going to try and make a DIY welder when I have the proper transformers and materials, but I would really like to know what the professionals have to say about it.
Scavenge a few microwaves and google "building a welder from microwave" to get an idea of the type of electrical circuit that you'll need for a low-power welder. Spot welding even .0625" steel rings shouldn't take too much to fuse together. If you're in school, find a professor with the requisite skills that would enjoy assisting you with such a project if you want to be safer about it.


Thanks for the advise, but:

Scavenging microwave ovens is not easy for me here.
You need to know a person that has a microwave so that when the microwave breaks they will let you know and pick it up.
Most people will usually buy a new one and sell the broken one to the store and the store will sell the broken microwave oven for recycling, but this offers are not year-long, so you can find MOT, but it is just hard to get the timing.

Finding microwave ovens in the dumpsters is hard and dangerous because other scavengers who actually make a living out of it, would be more than eager to stab you for it.
Do you know how many scavengers are found dead each year at the garbage dump sites?


I finished grade 12 a few years ago, but we had no such dangerous and murdering tools! No person should be allowed to own such dangerous tools!!!

At grade 7, we had labs but the only power tools we had were power drills and the teacher would allow only the most capable kids to handle them. This mean the taller kids, because tall kids are more capable and trustworthy, right? Rolling Eyes
Well, no. Actually I, an "untrusted kid" had to observe and babysit the "trusted" kids because height does not mean that you know how to use power tools, and I bet I was the only kid in the class that knew a couple of things.
We used tools only once in the whole year and at the end of the year the lab was turned into a class room, but since I had passed that school year, there was not going to be any more lab for me anyway.

Actually, my German classes would often take place in the former lab, and while waiting for the teacher, we got to play with the tools, because might had been turned into a class room, but all the tools and "benches" were around for 3 years after.
We even played with tools while the teacher was giving lesson. We were bored because very often the teacher would give the same lesson twice and thrice. German classed ended with grade 9, and we were only like 3/4 the way into the first book from grade 7, three years later.

Here, teachers and professors are in school for as long they have classes. They do not stay in school for 8 hours unless they have that many classes that day.

There are technical schools here that have labs with many goodies, but since I am not a student or teacher there I am barred from using the labs, and because I am not student or guardian, I am barred for entering the school to do anything more than visit the Principal or the secretary.


Anyway. I have asked around, and as soon someone has a broken microwave oven they will tell me or tell someone else to tell me. Maybe I will give them some dosh for the MOT because I am a good person and also to tempt them not to wait for recycling offers.

Let us hope that their microwave ovens will brake soon, or that someone will throw one to the dumpsters near were I live, so I will be able to go and grab it swiftly and quietly.

Post new topic Reply to topic
Jump to:  
Page 3 of 4. Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
All times are GMT. The time now is Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:24 am
M.A.I.L. Forum Index -> Knitting Circle
Display posts from previous: