Vertical expansion rather than horizontal
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Joined: July 21, 2011
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Vertical expansion rather than horizontal
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Posted on Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:40 pm
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Hi all,

I have tried searching through the older posts as I am sure there must be someone with the same problem as I have, but of the few posts I could find that came close I couldn't understand how the explanations were going to work. This is a long-winded apology for asking a question that has probably been asked before...

I have been making a coif using various patterns to design the sort of coif I wanted. It's a fashion item rather than an identical copy of a middle-ages one as you can see from the photo:


The problem is that I want it to come down like a mantle. As you can see in the image it forms a circle down to my chest and back but goes up over my shoulders.

I am trying to figure out how to bring the mail down at the sides without going any lower at the front. I know how to expand sideways but not downards. How can I do this?

|\/|artin

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Posted on Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:09 am
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Here you go: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/trevor.barker/farisles/guilds/armour/mail.htm#sect3-3



Joined: November 25, 2010
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Posted on Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:30 am
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I didn't understand the stuff on that link. Couldn't you just put more rows on the sides of your coif in triangles?

Joined: August 30, 2008
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Posted on Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:37 am
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djgm wrote:
I didn't understand the stuff on that link. Couldn't you just put more rows on the sides of your coif in triangles?


Really? You don't understand what is widely regarded as one of the best resources on coif/hauberk making?



Joined: May 07, 2008
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Posted on Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:32 pm
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Parthe: Seeing your coif (what doesn't look really sooo bad, compared to some other attempts I already saw), I'd like to note, that it makes sense to close the 'V' below the chin first, before even thinking about making a further expansion of its bottom. Once that is achieved, you can expand the bottom as you think appropriate.

But why noncircular? Think about turning your head when wearing the piece. What happens? Do you need an answer, of know yourself why I propose staying with a classical (quasi-)circular bottom rim expansion, AND why period maille coifs were made the same way.

But if you want to try it nevertheless, it can be done - by making diagonal borders, so the 'shoulder length' of the coif is increased.

(Click image to enlarge)

-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper MAl Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Ps Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hip

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

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Posted on Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:44 am
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To expand (har har hurr) further on the non-circular idea: you can get exactly the effect you want by making the cowl of your coif in oval circles, not perfect circular ones. If you lay the cowl part of your coif out flat on the floor, you would see the linkrows of the cowl not nesting in perfect circles, but describing oval shapes like a hooked rug or a racetrack. It's just in accord with the fact that you are wider shoulder to shoulder than you are deep from chest to back.

This works at its best with more width to your cowl, to get the cowl over the point of your shoulders.

Center front and center back, no expansions in the weave -- just plain, straight E4-1 weave, a strip as wide as the span of your hand, or maybe as wide as 7-8 fingersbreadths. You're not really going to need more. Extend such strips down center front and center back as far down as you wish to go. These central patches now define how far down your hem will be.

Now fill in everything else, using expansions freely arrayed throughout each shoulder area. For each expansion you put into one shoulder, go immediately to the other and put one in the corresponding mirror location. This will keep your cowl symmetrical.

When they built mail coifs for armor they seem to have made the face opening a bit shorter than the face, so that the mail's natural droop both cleared your chin and kept the mail snugged up against the angle of your throat where it would do the most good and cause the least bother. At any rate, that was where they may have started, to go on and later devise the mail flap known as an aventail (and this is the only sense I personally use the term, being a student of armor) which armored the lower half of your face and got its name because you breathed through it.

How many expansions? Fewer than you might think -- four per linkrow throughout will be ample. Stagger the expansions' locations back and forth so they don't line up and betray themselves. If you want to use links 1/16" smaller of ID than the rest of the weave for expansion links, do so and the expansions will hide within the weave better. As you work outward from the center of your cowl, the expansions will make every linkrow longer than the one before, longer and longer yet. Your expansions will gradually lie farther and farther apart. That won't matter. They are still doing the expansion thing, and that's what you want happening.


'The Minstrel Boy to the War is gone...'

Joined: July 21, 2011
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Posted on Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:04 pm
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drahcus wrote:
Here you go: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/trevor.barker/farisles/guilds/armour/mail.htm#sect3-3


Thanks Drahcus, this is the page that I took a lot of ideas from. The diagram showing the different sections was very helpful for building mine!

Parthe

Joined: July 21, 2011
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Posted on Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:12 pm
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ZiLi wrote:
Parthe: Seeing your coif (what doesn't look really sooo bad, compared to some other attempts I already saw), I'd like to note, that it makes sense to close the 'V' below the chin first, before even thinking about making a further expansion of its bottom. Once that is achieved, you can expand the bottom as you think appropriate.

Thanks ZiLi, I am in two minds about closing the V though. I know it's not authentic and if used in battle would provide a nice opening for my opponent's sword, but this is going to be a fashion item. I am using the making of this to learn chainmail techniques and how to solve chainmail problems.

ZiLi wrote:
But if you want to try it nevertheless, it can be done - by making diagonal borders, so the 'shoulder length' of the coif is increased.

I believe that this is going to be the best way forward, thanks for the suggestions and pointers.

Parthe

Joined: July 21, 2011
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Location: London, England

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Posted on Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:15 pm
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Konstantin the Red wrote:
To expand (har har hurr) further on the non-circular idea: you can get exactly the effect you want by making the cowl of your coif in oval circles, not perfect circular ones...


Thanks Konstantin, this is the perfect answer but sadly would mean tearing up the main part of my current coif. I will, however, definitely use this technique in the next one I make!

Parthe

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