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Joined: March 21, 2004
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Problematic
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Posted on Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:09 pm
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sheesh. I've got a few more pieces that i've finished lately but i'm not happy with them. I'm really falling down on my cuts. I have an enormous supply of stainless and I really love it's darker glow but i have no effective way to cut stianless nice-nice. I always have to resort to nips and I think they are ugly Mad I've seen well-photographed pieces that lack my amateur closures due to terrible cuts on the gallery board and I'm wondering what I'm missing. I also have the same problem with Ti. I understand there are suppliers like rings of steel that will sell me beatuifuly cut rings... but I already have piles of beautiful wire.

any suggestions? I'm totally failing here.


Hail to the king, baby.

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Posted on Sat Nov 01, 2008 1:58 am
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You could try selling your wire, then use the proceeds to buy cut rings. I, for one, have had trouble finding anything but galvy locally, and though I've bought a bunch of rings from Rings of Steel and The Ring Lord, I would like to try my hand at coiling & cutting some stainless. How much of what gauges do you have?

Joined: February 06, 2006
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Posted on Sat Nov 01, 2008 3:18 am
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2 ideas ..
1 is switch to a jewelers saw.
Pro .. Nice clean and beautiful cuts.
Con .. Its freaking stainless, a bit on the slow side and expect it to take time to learn the "skill".

2 Dremel w/cut-off wheels
Pro .. Clean and smooth cuts.
Con .. Kerf is somewhat large, so it's not so good on small jewelry sized rings.

3 Now that I think of it, tho I have little experiance with Thurston cutting blades, I hear they make some very fine edge cutters. Might look into them and building a power cutting rig.

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Posted on Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:07 am
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Don't bother trying to use a jewellers saw on stainless. I've been there, done that and it's awful. You can cut it VERY slowly and it will cost you a fortune in blades, just not worth the time and expense.
I buy in my stainless & Ti rings, I hate doing it but it's the only way to have half decent cuts.


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Joined: January 13, 2008
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Posted on Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:58 am
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For jewelry sized stainless steel rings I use cutoff discs on my dremel. I got the discs from Contenti and they are only 0.008" thick. They give a nice cut but I don't recommend them for anything thicker than 20 g. They are also brittle since they are so thin but I do pretty good if I keep the coils short and go slow.

Joined: March 21, 2004
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Posted on Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:18 pm
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Tried jewelers saw, not even one ring and 3 blades ruined
Tried dremel, kerf (as mentioned) is WAY to large, even with a diamond wheel.
Tried high speed stainless steel slotting blades. Nice cut, but difficult to set up and maintain due to the necessity of liquid cooling. It's also painfully slow (1 ring every 60-90 seconds) and the blades don't last long.
Tried score and break, unreliable, non-uniform.
Tried modifying cutters with a steeper angle on the jaws, imporvement, but not much and the jaws wear much faster (as to be expected)
Tried throwing the coils up in the air and asking a God, any God, to split the coils into perfect rings. so far, nothing yet.
Tried a plasma cutter. um yeah... the whole coil melted
Tried band saw. Great for bigger rings, but again kerf kills jewelry sized stuff.
Tried a few other things... but I really don't want to talk about those scenarios.

Selling wire and rebuying rings is a possibility, but I work in semi-chaotic ways. I do not have an inventory of rings save for small amounts of leftovers from previous projects. I do however have what my wife calls a 'ridiculous amount' of wire. when I am motivated to make something I usually coil and cut the rings as I use them. Except in cases where I'm making something exceptionally large (hauberk, coif, etc.) It's easy for me to store coils of wire, but would be somewhat difficult for me to store a large number and diverse selection of rings.

I've listed a bunch of my wirehere if you want to check it out.

thanks for the ideas though. I'll keep trying. I'm bound to stumbled upon something sooner or later... right?!?


Hail to the king, baby.

Joined: July 03, 2003
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Posted on Sat Nov 01, 2008 2:34 pm
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Dreemr wrote:
Tried high speed stainless steel slotting blades. Nice cut, but difficult to set up and maintain due to the necessity of liquid cooling. It's also painfully slow (1 ring every 60-90 seconds) and the blades don't last long.


I have to ask what power source (drill, drill press, dremel, etc.), coil guide or coil holder, and cutting speed (RPM) you were using as well as whether you were pushing the coil through the blade or the blade through the coil. if it took a minute or more to saw through a single ring you were either cutting 4g wire or, more likely, you had some part of the system set up wrong.

Joined: April 08, 2008
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Posted on Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:24 pm
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I work primarily in stainless right now, and so far I've bought all my rings. I haven't coiled/cut any other metals either, save a few sterling rings re-coiled from larger rings to attach clasps. I don't have any better ideas than the ones already listed but will follow along to see what is suggested. Good luck.


Jeffrey

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Joined: May 07, 2008
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Posted on Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:52 pm
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I really LIKE to work with stainless.

As a beginner I worked through about 10,000 rings I had bought; and til now I have made about 40,000 rings myself - and with a bit practice my self made rings not only are near the factory made ones, but even a bit better than the ones I am able to purchase.

I use the score'n'break method, and just needed a couple thousands of rings to reach a consistent method of cutting. The first ones either weren't bad, but my currently made ones are good enough even for jewellery. But my 'philosophy' is, that it is allowed to show the cuts, when using steel - as long as the closings are tight and fitted well. For score and break method the simple trick is to angle the boltie about 10-15 degrees sideways when scoring before breaking the ring off the wire, so no gap will develop when the rings are closed - the closing will even be held a bit closed by spring pressure.

BTW: With Aluminium and Bronze I prefer shear cut (and use a calibration pliers to re-round the rings thereafter). But I cut only 2 or 3 rings per cut, and prefer a slight sideways angling of the snips here, too - the purpose of that is told above. I will soon have to acquire a tumbler to round out the sharp edges of the cuts a bit - and I contemplate about a preopen/preclose pliers - maybe by modification of my calbration tool.

And I really contemplate hard about constructing a ring making machine myself, but until now I could not find the idea for "THE" solution...

-ZiLi-


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Posted on Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:11 pm
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Fortunately, I don't use stainless steel enough to get really fed up with cutting it. I do saw cut my stainless rings but you have to cut slowly and make certain the blade is well lubricated. I've found that if you only saw cut the rings part way through you can then twist them off and still get a fairly clean cut. This also spares your blades a bit more.


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Joined: March 21, 2004
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Posted on Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:20 pm
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cliffordparker wrote:
Dreemr wrote:
Tried high speed stainless steel slotting blades. Nice cut, but difficult to set up and maintain due to the necessity of liquid cooling. It's also painfully slow (1 ring every 60-90 seconds) and the blades don't last long.


I have to ask what power source (drill, drill press, dremel, etc.), coil guide or coil holder, and cutting speed (RPM) you were using as well as whether you were pushing the coil through the blade or the blade through the coil. if it took a minute or more to saw through a single ring you were either cutting 4g wire or, more likely, you had some part of the system set up wrong.


Well that's good to hear! that means I may be able to correct the issue and get to sawing this stuff! But if I were cutting 4G I'd prolly opt for an oxy-a torch or a plasma cuter. =D hehe

my rig is:
drill press, laying sideways, a coil-guide, push the coil through the blade. Works fantastic on alum ('bout 2 rings every 3-4 seconds) not bad on galvy, but terrible on stainless. My drill press is a harbor freight special and has 4 speeds. Off the top of my head I can't remember the actual RPMs, but I can tell you that I use the slowest speed for stainless. The blades tend to last the longest on slow. last go around with saw setup, I was using 3/32 316 stanless. I feed the coil with only moderate pressure as trying to force the stock faster has resulted in shattered blades and damage to the coil guide. I'm at work right now, but once I get home I can setup the rig and take pics. All but the liquid system since I dismantled that completely expecting to never try sawing stainless again. heh

any ideas?


Hail to the king, baby.

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Posted on Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:53 pm
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I have an idea...stainless findings are nearly impossible to find, maybe you could make different S clasps, toggles, coils, interesting connectors & such, and sell them or even trade them for rings. I would pay for good quality hand made stainless clasps that I don't have time to do myself.

Joined: August 12, 2008
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Re: Problematic
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Posted on Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:19 pm
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Dreemr wrote:
I really love it's darker glow but i have no effective way to cut stianless nice-nice.


Copper and Sterling can be easily and cheaply darkened with Liver of Sulfer. Doesn't help you use up your steel stash, but so you know, silver doesn't have to be bright ans shiny.


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Posted on Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:27 am
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Dreemr wrote:

my rig is:
drill press, laying sideways, a coil-guide, push the coil through the blade. Works fantastic on alum ('bout 2 rings every 3-4 seconds) not bad on galvy, but terrible on stainless. My drill press is a harbor freight special and has 4 speeds. Off the top of my head I can't remember the actual RPMs, but I can tell you that I use the slowest speed for stainless. The blades tend to last the longest on slow. last go around with saw setup, I was using 3/32 316 stanless. I feed the coil with only moderate pressure as trying to force the stock faster has resulted in shattered blades and damage to the coil guide. I'm at work right now, but once I get home I can setup the rig and take pics. All but the liquid system since I dismantled that completely expecting to never try sawing stainless again. heh

any ideas?

Well, make sure you are cutting straight through the coil. On each cut end, if you were to extend the plane of the cut it should intersect the center of the ring. If the cuts aren't radial, you are cutting too much. In my old setup, I tried cutting a copper coil in a guide that was .05 inches too large, and the blade cut it funny, melting the cut ends together and shattering the blade. Also, what kind of cutting fluid are you using and how much? What kind of coil guide are you using?

Lastly about blade speed, for stainless the best is 50 to 80 ft/min. Do the math to convert this to RPMs according to your blade diameter. Also, beware of how you adjust the RPMs on your motor. If you are using a drill press it shouldn't be much of a problem, but some people who use drills plug the drill into a router speed control or adjuster of the sort, beware. Many of these people assume that if their drill goes to 1000rpms, and they set it to a max and then plug it into the speed control and set the control at 25%, the drill will spin at 250 rpms. THIS IS A DANGEROUS ASSUMPTION TO MAKE, AS IT IS WRONG FOR MANY OF THE NEWER DRILLS! I found this out the hard way with my drill- I set it at its 1100rpm max and set the control to 15%, which I thought would give the perfect speed for cutting stainless WRONG! The drill would not turn till I reached 20%, and until 50% it moved strangely and made a start-stopping sound. I finally decided to rig up a tachometer to measure the rpms: At 25% on the control, it was not spinning at 25% of the speed like I expected, but rather 50%. Not only that, but it was behaving like an improvised, sloppy impact hammer drill, very bad for the tool. To properly adjust speed (on a trigger adjusted drill) , you must actally dissasemble it (void warranty), remove the trigger, and put a knob on the potentiometer, and give the drill the regular electric socket it was made for. If done properly, adjusting the potentiometer will give the same result as holding the trigger at a certain point perfectly.

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Joined: March 21, 2004
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Posted on Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:09 pm
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here are some pics of my rig.






I'm fairly limited on the amount of space maille can consume so I use lots of clamps for easy set-up/ break down. Also, at the moment I have this setup for alum. I use a stick lube for alum so the whole liquid coolant/lubricate system is absent. Infact it's been totaly dismantled because I only ever used it for stainless and I gave up saw cutting stainless 2 years ago. When I had it together, I would direct a stream along side the blade so that the blade and the material were both being wetted just before where saw meets ring and the blade had a steady steam over it. I'm not sure what the name of the lube is but it's an emulsified wax of some sort. It's what we use at the mill in our band saw which primarily cuts stainless. I can get the name tonight when I go in.

RPM on the lowest drill setting is 620... that works out to about 162 feet per minute on a 1 inch wheel. maybe I'm still going to fast and need a higher quality drill press.


Hail to the king, baby.

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