Q's between chainmaille and plate armor...plz help
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Which is better?
Chainmaille
56%
 56%  [ 9 ]
Plate mail
43%
 43%  [ 7 ]
Total Votes : 16

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Q's between chainmaille and plate armor...plz help
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Posted on Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:16 pm
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ok... i have a few questions that i need for my paper. ok, what i really need is the pro's and con's of the two types of armor... like whats the durribility between them? and like whats the resistnce to piercing of the two armors... so please, please help me! my deadline for my paper is due very soon!...

thank you for the people who help me!

P.s. if you would, please pm. me your name so i can use you in my paper.

Thank You!


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Posted on Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:37 pm
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Well I am no expert, but since no one is answering I wil give you my tiny insight.

-Chainmaille is very effective at stoping swords from cutting the skin, it provides minimal defences against blunt wepons (the only defence against that is the weight at the bottom of the suit along with gravity provides a little bit of resistance). So essentially chainmaille converts a sharp object to a blunt object. Chainmaille is not very protective agiainst peircing blows either, and is not protective at all against projectiles.

-Plate Maille is a very generic term, but I will go off what is commonly known as plate maille which is small peices of metal connected to each other by rings. Plate maille has a small advatage over chainmaille which is that the plates provide greater protection against stabbing blows, and a tiny bit of support agiaint projectiles. It provides the same amount of protection against blunt objects and the same protection against sword blows. Though the downfall is that the plates can slip out of the rings that hold them together unless the rings are rivited.

Theres my two cents, overall I would say plate maille is better.


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Posted on Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:25 pm
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Well the main difference is that chainmail/chainmaille/chain mail/maille exists, while "plate mail" is a nonsense term made up by Dungeons and Dragons back in the eighties.

In whatever form or spelling, maille means an armor composed of interlocking rings. So "plate mail" would have to be maille that had plates added onto it, which did exist in a couple of rare historical cases, but is almost certainly not what you mean when you say "plate mail"...


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Posted on Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:51 pm
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Chain Mail.

Light (relatively speaking) very flexible, low maintenance, requires only one person to put on. generally only one piece (but can consist of several) With good padding protects well against blunt and sharp things. Easy to remove. Expands and contracts like the body.


Plate Armor. Lots of individual pieces, Lots of leather straps and buckles, generally needs two people to put on. Can be quite flexible if fitted well and made well, excellent protection against blunt and sharp things, generally weighs more than mail, relatively high maintenance, If poorly fitted tends to bind and cause armor bites, doesn't expand and contract with the body (weight gain/loss causes fitting issues), dents can cause articulation to bind and stick.


An actual gambeson and shirt of mail can be put on in ~three minutes or less in haste. The mail shirt can be on on in less than 15 seconds with no padding.

Actual Plate armor requires ~20min and 2 people to put on. In haste you could probably shave a few minutes off.

What does this have to do with the price of Yaks in mongolia well, if someone is attacking your tents in the middle of the night what you rather have plate or mail ?????


Plate mail is one of those interesting terms. Most people feel that it's s silly term however, personally I think it refers to hybrid armor which consisted of plates (steel, bronze or leather ) suspended in mail of which numerous examples exist.

Any way, plates (small) suspended in mail is also very good armor. Has the same qualities of mail and some of plate. looks really nice also.

Over the years I have made and fought in plate suspended in mail (plate mail if you will) and regular mail. I have also fought in full Plate and I personally prefer Mail or Plate in mail (plate mail) to full plate.

Chain Mail (Mail) is the oldest most widely used type of armor still in use. Its been around for +2400 years and counting protecting us from sharp pointy things. If it didn't work it would not have lasted as long....


Sooooo what did I vote for Mail of coarse however, plates suspended in mail ( dare I say "plate mail") is also good...


For the hauberks of the Dwarves were so fashioned that they rusted not but shone ever as if they were new-burnished. The Silmarillion






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Posted on Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:07 am
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I avoid the dumbunny term "plate mail" altogether, preferring to speak of such Turkish/Central Asian-influenced shirts as "plates AND mail." Small plates plus mail were typical assemblages for regions without factory towns that could run iron ingots and blooms through battering mills and make flat metal sheets from which large armor plates could be cut and formed, first roughed out at red heat, then refined cold.

With some experience of SCA plate armor under my belt, there is a very great deal to be said for plate's protectiveness against muscle-driven weapons. As Charles Ffoulkes put it, when it came to firearms vs. plate armor, "It was the fact that armour was proof against firearms that led to its disuse, and not that it was of no avail against them, as is the generally accepted idea." (Ffoulkes, The Armourer And His Craft, p. 12) He goes on to add that armours of proof grew too heavy. King Charles the Second of England is recorded as quipping during the English Civil War that armor of proof was among the most humane martial equipment ever devised: it guarded the wearer from harm and it prevented him from moving fast enough to harm anyone else.

Unlike mail, plate to some degree holds itself up, thus not concentrating its entire load on the shoulders and to a lesser degree the waist. Armor for the battlefield generally maxed out at around sixty-five pounds' weight. A fully armored man was essentially operating a weapons system. His plate armor was his defensive component, his destrier his propulsion, his lance, sword, mace or war hammer his offensive weaponry. Note I don't mention his shield -- the better plate armor got, the less combat use shields saw. Big Norman kiteshields were of the hauberk era, and needed then. Shields began to really shrink by the earliest fourteenth century, when mail was beginning to have simply-shaped plate reinforcements strapped or tied onto the mail with thongs.

Helmets evolved into helms, starting from the early thirteenth century. The pointy, nasaled Norman conical helmet of the eleventh-century Bayeux Tapestry inflated into a rounded, taller gumdrop shape, grew some added framing about the face if period art is to be so interpreted, and swiftly evolved into what the Armour Archive people call the "saltshaker" pothelm -- either inflated and rounded or a conical affair like on Monty Python's King Arthur character, and all of them looking very much like one kind of saltshaker's top or another. These had a valuable spaced-armor effect where a swordcut had to both break through the metal and then traverse inches of space before arriving at the head inside. The next thing that happened to saltshaker helms was they began to get face plates. These were so well received that plates about the base of the skull soon followed, and the bucketlike barrel-helm was born. Or it grew -- the process took decades. But by the circa 1250 Maciejowski Bible's time, a complete, flat topped barrel helm was state of the art, worn over a hauberk with long, mittened sleeves and an integral coif -- which 'berk, in riveted mail, probably weighed in at from 35 to 40 pounds. Add ten or twelve for a pair of chausses and a similar weight for the helm.


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Posted on Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:14 am
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It's not a great question, your question covers two areas. 1. opinion - which do we THINK is better, and 2. Which is better overall, which is dependent on the situation. Put yourself in a historical situation. I'd rather wear maille, if i were going into a covert/sneak situation. or perhaps i'm an archer away from the line of battle, i'd prefer maille for the mobility and the protection it offers. If I'm in a siege situation, or mounted cavalry...give me plates over plates. (not scales, plates!)

personally i love maille for it's ease of creation..it's so easy to make and looks awesome. but i also love plate armour for the skill it takes to create something nice.

so they both rock. how's that for an answer?

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Posted on Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:09 pm
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ok what i had meant about the "plate mail" was like breast plate type of armor you know the kind that can cost close to a small farm back then... but i just try to put the two Q's together to save time... thank you and if you can please keep up with the posts Smile


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Posted on Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:54 pm
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ya know what konstin? I would LOVE to buy you a coffee or three and talk about armour through the ages. I enjoy reading your posts and find your seemingly bottomless wealth of knowledge astounding. I truely admire you dedication to the art.


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Posted on Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:55 pm
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[quote= Raining_death89 ]ok what i had meant about the plate mail was like breast plate type of armor you know the kind that can cost close to a small farm back then... but i just try to put the two Q's together to save time... thank you and if you can please keep up with the posts Smile[/quote]




Actually Mail was very expensive to Wink

Plate armor is one of those things you either like it or you don't. Aesthetically speaking some of the plate armor is quite beautiful however, from a fighting stand point I prefer Mail.

When you put the words Plate and mail together it can dump you into the D&D or fantasy bucket. Some even have issues with Chain Mail' although the issues with the term chain mail seem to be less than those with plate mail.
Plate and mail is also used to describe Eastern armor that incorporates plates into the mail as an integral part however, the term Plate Mail is also accurate (in my book) for describing it even though the term is discouraged. The argument over these terms can get quite heated at times...LOL

Personally it's not big deal to me as long as I know what your referring to so I can be on the same page.

Mail is very adaptable and lends it's self to layering an example being, Tamerlane's chronicler states that most went around with a light mail shirt under the regular clothes for day to day chores. At this time they were in a constant state of warfare so this makes sense. If you were riding to battle then you put on over the top heavy armor. This would consist of a variety of types such as hard plate or lamellare but was mainly hard in nature. So in effect you were wearing plate and mail armor. Transitional armor of western Europe of approximately the same time period would also be another example of plate and mail combinations.


Armor was also a fashion and social status statement. For a knight to show up at a 16th century tournament in a full coat of mail or 15th century plate armor for combat would be on the same social level as showing up to a modern formal affair in a 19th century suit. While you may be dressed nicely it is a bit behind the times and a bit of a social no no.

Which one is better is going to depend a lot on the individual and there needs. Plate or mail take your pick both have pluses and minuses however, in my book mail is more versatile and far better.

.


For the hauberks of the Dwarves were so fashioned that they rusted not but shone ever as if they were new-burnished. The Silmarillion






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Posted on Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:20 am
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reading over these posts I see a few things missing. First off chain maille was widely used because one size fit most. It was pretty cheap to make as opposed to plate mail. Now chain maille did well against broad head arrows. Thus the reason for the bodkin arrow to be invented (a needle like arrow)..

Plate armour refers to a suit made of articulating plates. The main torso was often one piece with jointed arms added. Plate leggings were jointed as well. It is said that the suit was so flexible that a knight could easily do cartwheels in it. Now this suit was custom fitted, thus it was more expensive than mail, reason for it being commonly worn by knights who could afford it. Now it could stand up to blunted attacks much better than maille, yet suffered from a strike from a "reversed bodkin" can't remember the actual name. The tip was larger than the rest of the arrow so it could punch through and allow the rest to pass without hindrance.

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Posted on Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:18 pm
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Here is a pic I ran across awhile back. It would seen that even plate has it's limitations (chuckle) Smile






For the hauberks of the Dwarves were so fashioned that they rusted not but shone ever as if they were new-burnished. The Silmarillion






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Posted on Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:22 pm
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Neither, only Predator style, lazer, mirrormaille, stuff will save us.


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Posted on Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:26 pm
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By the look of that hole I'd say the poor soul took a hit from a siege engine.

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Posted on Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:34 pm
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Ferd De Mann wrote:
By the look of that hole I'd say the poor soul took a hit from a siege engine.



He was a member of the French heavy cavalry at Waterloo. The hole is from one of the Duke of Wellingtons artillery pieces.


OUCH......


For the hauberks of the Dwarves were so fashioned that they rusted not but shone ever as if they were new-burnished. The Silmarillion






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Posted on Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:58 pm
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heh no protection from that

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