maille used to signify rank?
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maille used to signify rank?
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Posted on Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:32 pm
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Hi there, I've been looking around for new ideas for maille, and I knew I ran across a source citing that maille was used as epaulettes in the military to help signify the rank of certain individuals. I also know that chains were given to knights to signify their nighthood. What I'm curious about however is this: I was under the impression that there were chains worn that went over the shoulder and under the armpit in some military uniforms to signify rank or some such thing, however I can't find anything that tells me whether or not this is true. If anyone out there knows one way or the other if something like this was ever done I'd like to see a source or two demonstrating it.

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Posted on Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:57 pm
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i know of chains worn by crafts men to signify their skills and i know eppilets with cords were and are used in millitary uniforms but i never heard about eppilets being made from maille as any real insignia... now i made one for my self and im goign to make one for a friend but its not like its an offical piece of decoration

-matt


Matt Athayde

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

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Posted on Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:23 pm
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Its true. Usually most military use cuords for rank etc. There was a thread on this a while back. An individual wanted to make one out of chainmaille for his trenchcoat. The name of the item eludes me but ill do some research, see what i can find. I'l see about pictures as well.


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Posted on Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:31 pm
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i also had a thread up about this type of item but i cant find it any more so idk where it went to, it wasnt as much about any meaning as just looking for a pic of one that was done before

-matt


Matt Athayde

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

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Posted on Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:28 am
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At least one regiment of British Fusiliers used E4-1 mail epaulets (that's really how you spell it, guys -- the root-word for "shoulder" -- see pauldron and spaulder/spaudler), not as a sign of rank but as a regimental cognizance. Seems there was this battle in India where one of their number cobbled up a batch of epaulets out of available wire which they stitched to their uniform tunics for protection against cuts by tulwars. They won, and kept the epaulets as a distinction for their regiment's uniform. (Also epaulettes.)

Military aguilettes are of cord or braid, not chain, and are not badges of rank but a sign of some specific and distinctive, even distinguished, duty the wearer is assigned -- General Staff, Aide to the President, the tricolor braid of WW2's First Special Service Force, et cetera.

The knightly neck chain is, I think, more a Creative Anachronist hallmark than necessarily one used in history. There were Orders of knighthood, e.g. Order of the Golden Fleece, whose insignia was a chain of this or that, but this denoted membership in that particular order of knights rather than a condition of knighthood per se. What did see use for over a century in the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries was a broad belt, latterly made of a series of plaques of manly goldsmith's work, as a badge of nobility, sometimes worn even by women, but most usually by knights. See plaque belt and cingulum militaire.


'The Minstrel Boy to the War is gone...'

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Posted on Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:13 am
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thanks to all of you for the prompt and rather thorough response. I think I intend on making such a shoulder chain anyway, even though there's not quite historical significance for it. At least now I know some history behind it. Though it makes me wonder if someday maille shoulder chains might become a symbol simply by discussing it and people slowly creating ones for themselves or others. Like perhaps it could be an international mailler's insignia or something :p

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Posted on Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:15 am
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we should make an official one for MAIL, to contain certain weaves, certain materials, etc.

Joined: May 26, 2006
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Posted on Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:12 pm
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denoting our board ranks? or years experience? or preference to a type of weave?



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Posted on Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:18 pm
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I figured out a nice Beez to Butterflies with most of the rings doubled that I like alot, I'm currently making it in black and silver aluminum 18g 1/4" I have a tutorial on my deviant art site for what I use here

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/35609280/?qo=15&q=by%3Agnomeofmaille&qh=sort%3Atime+-in%3Ascraps

Though I remembered the other day as I started the chain that the blue rings are in three instead of four like the cgi images show. This is in order to help with weaving and reduce the stiffness of the weave

I plan on having the piece around my right shoulder, perhaps the positioning could imply handedness, so our left handed maillers could put it around their left shoulders if they partake in the idea. I like the idea of just picking a weave you like to use as the chain, even though a uniform weave would make it seem more 'organized'. Perhaps there could be a secondary chain, one that starts from the first chain on either side of the shoulder and loops around the top of the arm. This one could be a certain weave perhaps in certain colors to denote year experience or some such distinguishing feature

Joined: December 25, 2002
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Posted on Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:58 pm
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I like the idea of a Fourragere for maille smiths. Perhaps one weave to denote someone who has mastered "x" number of weaves...another weave to show that a mailler has an apprentice..another to show that that mailler has "x" number of apprentices, etc etc.

David
(who has about 12 part-time apprentices...what weave would be good for that?)


David Stous
Chief Maille Smith
Wolf's Den Armoury
St. Albans, Vermont
http://www.wolfsdenarmoury.com

Joined: May 26, 2006
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Posted on Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:03 am
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gold elfweave with a FP6-1 border made from invar... in 24g wire



Joined: November 06, 2006
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The obvious answer
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Posted on Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:08 am
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Embellishments? To each his own.
Mastery always speaks for itself.

On the other hand, might be nice
to share some recognizable part
of the design in common.

Joined: May 21, 2004
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Posted on Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:25 am
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Maille heraldry, of a sort... awesome Coif Cool Smiley

I see it as a base strip of maille, an inch or so wide and in the mailler's preferred gauge. (Armorers have it easier here Razz ) Trim and chains hanging from the front and end of the strip might indicate weaves or apprentices, while the weave of the base strip could indicate years' experience. The base strip could be inlaid for those who specialize in inlays or just want to be different. Having an "official" variation in materials would open up more possibilities, though it would potentially be problematic for people who might not be able to get their hands on said materials.

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Posted on Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:23 pm
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I still like a base weave for whatever the mailler likes, and then setting some kind of ground rules for secondary chains to show years experience and something like apprentices. Perhaps a mailler's apprentices would adopt the same base weave or something of the sort to show affiliation with the chief mailler

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