'weave' definition
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'weave' definition
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Posted on Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:17 pm
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"A weave is the immediate pattern noticed in a piece of maille of one weave. It is the repeating pattern, and the pattern in which the rings are added, and the characteristics of how they interact with other rings in the weave."

Does anyone (preferably with a good grasp of the English language) want to take a stab at defining the word weave? Even if you just have a few ideas of what to include, that would be helpful too.

After we've agreed upon a new definition, I can change the original entry.


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Re: 'weave' definition
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Posted on Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:54 pm
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David_Austin wrote:
"A weave is the immediate pattern noticed in a piece of maille of one weave. It is the repeating pattern, and the pattern in which the rings are added, and the characteristics of how they interact with other rings in the weave."


I'll try and start the ball rolling.

"The term weave describes a unique combination of linked rings."

Hmmm...I'm being distracted by too many things at the moment. I will try and order my thoughts and get back to this.


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Posted on Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:43 pm
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wow... my post was lost, that sucks. Now I have to retype the whole thing. Let's see if I can get it done faster.

"A unique and indefinitely repeatable pattern of rings, characterized by the connections between rings, and containing only rings that serve to maintain the physical structure of the weave or to connect an instance of the pattern to an adjacent instance."

Ok rather than type the other two paragraphs over, let's paraphrase:

indefinite - you should be able to expand forever in at least one direction. Knots are just knots, not weaves.

The last part - removes decorative "non-function" rings from the definition. There, that's all I'm saying.

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Posted on Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:30 pm
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While we're at it, I think a glossary entry for variant is necessary too.

I'm sorry I'm not being more help by actually coming up with content, but I'd best leave that to the pros. Wink


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Posted on Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:40 pm
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Tesserex wrote:
"A unique and indefinitely repeatable pattern of rings, characterized by the connections between rings, and containing only rings that serve to maintain the physical structure of the weave or to connect an instance of the pattern to an adjacent instance."

...

indefinite - you should be able to expand forever in at least one direction. Knots are just knots, not weaves.

The last part - removes decorative "non-function" rings from the definition.


Sounds pretty good. What constitutes a decorative ring, though?

David_Austin wrote:
While we're at it, I think a glossary entry for variant is necessary too.

I'm sorry I'm not being more help by actually coming up with content, but I'd best leave that to the pros. Wink


Well, I guess that last line leaves me out, too Smile

But yes, variant would be nice to have described.

For starters:
"A minor change in an existing weave that changes the behavior of the weave."

The example that always comes to my mind is Snake Skin.


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Posted on Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:59 am
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"A collection of rings formed into a unique, repeatable pattern that at least one AR will hold its shape when thrown against various objects, and maintain that pattern"

Quote:
indefinite - you should be able to expand forever in at least one direction. Knots are just knots, not weaves.

except that knots could be formed at a high AR, or have an extra ring pass through them, and then have rings passed through the empty spaces created, joining them together. An example of this is http://www.mailleartisans.org/weaves/subcat.cgi?key=6208


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Posted on Sat Oct 28, 2006 12:51 am
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Except that it's just a chain of knots, the knot is not the weave.

ED - the part about the decorative ring explanation is part of what I didn't feel like retyping after my post was lost. A non-functional decorative ring is one that is a ring that does not provide any additional support or assistance in connecting instances of the pattern together. For example, look at wolfweave http://www.mailleartisans.org/weaves/subcat.cgi?key=6854 . The AE rings woven into the sheet do nothing to help the euro 4-1 in, well, "being euro 4-1". It was happy the way it was, and doesn't need those extra rings to hold together.

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Posted on Sat Oct 28, 2006 3:16 am
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Tesserex wrote:
ED - the part about the decorative ring explanation is part of what I didn't feel like retyping after my post was lost. A non-functional decorative ring is one that is a ring that does not provide any additional support or assistance in connecting instances of the pattern together. For example, look at wolfweave http://www.mailleartisans.org/weaves/subcat.cgi?key=6854 . The AE rings woven into the sheet do nothing to help the euro 4-1 in, well, "being euro 4-1". It was happy the way it was, and doesn't need those extra rings to hold together.


That's basically the same principle behind Rhinos Snorting Drano and Jellybeans On Parade, except where those two run across the grain, Wolfweave runs the units with the grain. And it's all what I would call European 4-in-1 Augmented of one sort or another. (Okay, so I'm in this rut of trying to redefine some of these weaves with more descriptive names. So sue me Smile )

It forms a unique pattern. It holds that pattern without having to have somebody's hands there holding it. If you're going to say that the Wolfweave variation is a decorative ring, I'd say that captive rings are purely decorative as well.


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Posted on Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:07 am
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Captive rings can indeed be purely decorative, that is unless they are required to maintain stiffness of the weave. Some sizes are too large and fall apart without captive rings as a skeleton. Hmm... this is getting complicated.

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Posted on Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:44 am
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Tesserex wrote:
Hmm... this is getting complicated.


And this is an understatement Smile

Back to the subject of variants. A variation is a principle that can be generally applied to a number of weaves. Some variations may not be possible with certain weaves. I consider the following to be categories of variations:
Kinged - each link consists of 2 rings
Scaled - each link consists of 2 rings, one of which fits inside the other
Boxed - Don't know how to accurately describe it. Example would, of course, be European 4-in-1 Boxchain
Rounded - Again, no description. Example would be European 4-in-1 Roundmaille
Progression - A variation which expands a pattern with a logical/mathematical increase. Example: European even series.
Regression - Another way of looking at progression if a primary weave is altered by a logical/mathematical reduction. Byzantine (2 connectors between boxes) to Byzantine Mono (single connector between boxes)

I have no problem with variations being named. But in some way thay should be shown to be offshoots of their parent weave.
Something else that I don't consider to be weaves are combinations. A strip of Weave A connected to a strip of Weave B, repeat. Heck, if that was the case, let me take a strip of European 4-in-1 and alternate it with Half Persian 3-in-1 and submit it as a new weave.

I apologize if anything is unclear. I'm tired, but I'm staying up to browse the forums because I was away from home all day.


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Posted on Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:56 am
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That's actually a very good idea, and correlates perfectly to how the main weave page will be arranged. Each of those variant things is a check box. Wow, this new Firefox spell check thing is awesome.

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Posted on Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:44 am
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I really like Tesserex's weave definition, only I would change it to say thereof in place of "of the weave", only so that the word doesn't appear in it's own definition.

Does everyone agree with:

"A unique and indefinitely repeatable pattern of rings, characterized by the connections between rings, and containing only rings that serve to maintain the physical structure thereof or to connect an instance of the pattern to an adjacent instance."


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Posted on Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:51 pm
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I think that's in the right direction but I'd like to have it clarify a few things:

- I think knots should be included (as 0-dimentional weaves), and there should be a mention of the number of dimensions in which the weave can be extended.

- Some discussion of when a strip from a weave is considered a weave on its own. For example, I view HP3-1sheet6 as not different from the HP3-1 chain (it introduces no new connection), but HP3-1sheet5 is distinct from HP3-1 (it has euro4-1 connections that are not present in HP3-1). I also think elf chain is just be a strip of elf sheet for the same reasons. But that also begs a clarification of what constitutes a connection: we can't have euro4-1 be considered the same as a 2-1-2 chain.

- Clarify when a captive or orbital ring is "structural" and when it is not. The orbitals in "power line" must be considered structural, but not those in "wolf weave".

- A definition of "weave" that considers only structural rings must refer to a definition of "variant".

Anyways, these are just my 2 rings.

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Posted on Tue Nov 07, 2006 5:01 pm
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So, on the subject of knots, what 'weaves' are you considering to be knots?


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Posted on Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:19 am
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I can't make an exhaustive list of what I consider knots (perhaps if I was a 20 man team with a lot of time on my hands I could go through the weave db and list them all). But here are a few examples:

Not tao
tao
tetra orb

And of course, all the ways one can wrap a marble...

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