newbie page (feedback?) (project thread)
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Joined: January 21, 2004
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Posted on Sat Dec 17, 2005 12:11 am
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Bibbidy bobbidy bump.

http://people.alfred.edu/~jwo1/maille/mailnoobpage/mail-nubie-Phong-v1c.html



-- CGMaille tutorials now hosted here at MAIL! --

Joined: April 15, 2002
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Posted on Sat Dec 17, 2005 3:08 am
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Yay. One more step closer to awesome.

"There is a good chance that as you begin mailling, more questions will be raised than answered. More complicated questions about specific weaves, patterns, materials, techniques, or designs are answered usually in the form of articles. Besides that linked word,"

You must've ripped out a few links. I think "articles" used to link to the articles page ("form of articles"). Hence the "Besides that linked word,"

Also, after taking some time to think about it.. I'm not sure allowing the text to fill the screen width is a good idea. It makes it really hard to read on big resolutions. That's why newspapers tend to break things into colllumns. A collumn is much easier to read. Long lines are hard on the eyes/brain. Not that we should do collumns, they don't work on the 'net, but, maybe it should just be slimmer, less content per line. Like it was before, I think I liked it better that way. Though I don't speak for everyone on that, of course.

Otherwise, looks really snazzy. Very clean, very sharp. Like a good suit. Well done.

Joined: March 3, 2002
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Posted on Sat Dec 17, 2005 3:46 am
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i agree the articles section should have a link where we discuss newbie articles.

i think the text looks good.

how are we going to post this until we can get a coder with free time? where should we host it in the intrim? herr offered hosting space..

i am definitely in favor of the announcement method.

kim


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

Joined: January 21, 2004
Posts: 1061
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Posted on Sat Dec 17, 2005 5:19 am
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http://people.alfred.edu/~jwo1/maille/mailnoobpage/mail-nubie-Phong-v1d.html

Fixed the link, and changed the width of the main text to 80%. A smaller width, but will still use most of the available acreage.

I also tested the page at 800x600 resolution, and noticed that the header spilled over the sides. I realize that this is a separate issue, but mayhap the header should be tweaked to be a little bit narrower?

I volunteer Alfred U's webspace if no one else has a dedicated place for it.

-phong



-- CGMaille tutorials now hosted here at MAIL! --

Joined: April 15, 2002
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Posted on Sat Dec 17, 2005 7:26 am
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sakredchao wrote:
i agree the articles section should have a link where we discuss newbie articles.


... Huh?

That text used to have the word "Articles" link to MAIL's Articles area. When Phong copied it over, the link wasn't created. But now he's fixed it.

Quote:
how are we going to post this until we can get a coder with free time? where should we host it in the intrim? herr offered hosting space..


We, don't? We don't host it offsite. We leave it up to the coders.

Quote:
i am definitely in favor of the announcement method.


It's a nice idea, but I don't think it'll work. User (newbie at that) feedback isn't an effective medium by which to measure usefulness. Apathy ends up getting weighted 10:1 and anything you post seems to be prefect. That, or the few replies that do appear are either useless, or grossly-heavily weighed. You have to anticipate all the comments we'd *not* be getting, and guess what they might be saying.

And like I said before, do we want *more* feedback on this? Seriously? And what, are we going to open this thread again and sit down to make *more* changes later? We've all but burned out already. In fact, we have a list of only about 2 hours worth of effort to make changes, that we still can't get anyone to do now. Who's going to do anything once that list gets longer?

It's also, in my opinion, embarrasing to use the *front page* of a website as a beta test, especially on something tiny like this. It's, sad, pathetic, and unprofessional.

---

Phong - I don't know much about proper formatting in HTML. Is there any (easy/automated/simple) way to use the full screen, unless that happens to be above a certain size, at which point we clip it off? I know we could hardcode it to a fixed width, or leave it as a percentage, but is there a middle ground?

Also, for what it's worth, the header isn't done. 14th Warrior stopped working on it to wait until we had the rest of the site redesign done. Last I checked, he didn't consider it finished, he wanted to do more work on it.

Joined: January 21, 2004
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Posted on Sat Dec 17, 2005 8:52 am
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I've been reading about and trying out CSS stuff all night, and I've found that there is a 'min width' and 'max width' that I'd wager you could use for just that purpose.
News at 6.

-phong



-- CGMaille tutorials now hosted here at MAIL! --

Joined: March 3, 2002
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Posted on Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:41 pm
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not for feedback, cynake.. as a method to post this page until the coders have time. then, redirect the link when it's posted here at MAIL.

january 4, if it's not hosted locally, i'm announcing a link offsite.

1 year is enough time.

kim


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

Joined: April 15, 2002
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Location: Calgary, AB. Canada.

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Posted on Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:31 am
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sakredchao wrote:
not for feedback, cynake.. as a method to post this page until the coders have time. then, redirect the link when it's posted here at MAIL.

january 4, if it's not hosted locally, i'm announcing a link offsite.

1 year is enough time.

kim


Umm, what's the rush? I understand it's taken much longer than you are happy with, but, putting your foot down and setting a date doesn't change that. The degree to which you are upset looking backwards does not change what the best decision is looking forward. Is there some particular importance in getting it done in under a year? Does a year + 1 day make a difference? A year +2? We have a method of updating it, we have people who fill those rolls, it will just take until the coders integrate it. What does launching it a few days earlier gain anyone? It's not like between Feb and Sept when it sat for 7 months and no one worked on it. It's being worked on.

Admin issue, but I don't think you're stepping on a few toes by making that decision. Unless you have some reason why it's imperative to be done by that date, and how that date is different than any other soonish date, I don't see why you are saying hell or high water, it launches and it doesn't matter how.

You want to post it offsite, I suppose, go ahead. Don't make it a MAIL affiliated thing then though, and don't make an announcement for it. Or, launch it as an article if you feel like it. But if we're going to launch it officially, let the coders do their job, even if it's not on the same day you want it to be. You not being happy with a timeline doesn't outweigh doing something properly. Just like if I'm not happy with how long the header's taking, I can't just say "Oh well, if it's done or not by Friday, I'm making database changes and launching it, I don't like how long it's taken."

Joined: February 29, 2004
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Posted on Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:34 pm
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I think if we go back to my original idea for using an announcement it was mostly to get this useful information into the hands of the newbeez who need it in as expeditious a manor as possible ? and in a manor in which updates to the page can still occur as we make the final tweaks prior to formal launch and coding into MAIL. We are more than 90% there, in my opinion. We should share what we have. I don?t see a need to wait until it?s totally perfect, in final form and will never be changed again. We can get this before those who need it without needing to wait weeks or months or worse. We put a pile of work into the new header. That hasn?t been implemented yet. We?ve put a good bit of work into weaves area redesign. That was so long ago now that I had totally forgotten that I wrote the layout! I understand wanting to wait until things are ?just so? but I can also understand the very real concern that if we don?t take matters into our own hands and do something that it just won?t get done. Things are starting to happen with the cadre of coders that Blaise is working with. Once that ball gets rolling I expect things to really start jumping. I don?t expect to see anything there until after the holidays or even into spring. They have a lot of work ahead of them. But in the mean time, we have the opportunity to help folks out with what we?ve got right now. We don?t need to ask for input from the n?bies if we don?t want to. How the announcement gets worded can easily deflect that. That the page is not in its final form can also be easily explained. I don?t think there?s anything magic about the one year anniversary for the preliminary launch via announcement. It?s just a good cutoff point to move into the next phase of this project. My personal feeling is why wait if we don?t have to.

Edit: spelling


"Do not go where the path may lead,
go instead where there is no path and leave a trail."
– Ralph Waldo Emerson

My blog: The (New) Eclectic Dragonfly. Some of my stuff at CafePress!

Joined: March 3, 2002
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Posted on Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:49 pm
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there has never been permission needed to make an announcement. i have not always agreed with the appropriateness of the announcements, but i never challenged the admins' right to post it. frankly, i think the completion of a year long project is worthy of an announcement. posting an announcement serves 2 purposes.

1) it lets people know that we got something finished... finally.

2) it allows new users to make use of the page -now- while final tweaking is going on. and editing the announcement upon completion will remove the offsite link and redirect it to the new home.

as head of the ad hoc comittee i have the responsibility to make decisions about things of this nature, on this particular project. it would be nice to have assistance composing an announcement, but i will do it either way.

there are 2 admins who could tell me that using an announcement in this manner would be inappropriate. i'm sure they know who they are.

this is my last post debating this issue.

kim


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

Joined: November 20, 2003
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Posted on Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:31 pm
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Well Kim didn't, and probably didn't want to, argue about the specific date thing. I'm sure it's just because no one wants to see it dragged on all over again. I don't think it will be, so maybe an extra day or two would be let slide. You don't have to rush to finish it by then. If it's almost done and you need an extra few days to finish it no one will be upset.

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Posted on Mon Dec 19, 2005 11:22 pm
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hmm, i hope i didn't sound like i was rushing phong.

i am in no rush for the page to be perfected, it's showable now.

kim


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

Joined: February 29, 2004
Posts: 1898
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Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Marxistchussetts

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Posted on Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:16 am
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sakredchao wrote:
hmm, i hope i didn't sound like i was rushing phong.

i am in no rush for the page to be perfected, it's showable now.

kim

That's how I was reading it. Not rushing Phong, just trying to get this in front of the people who could use it. That was my intent as well. Phong has done yeoman?s work whipping the mess I left into shape and that render looks dynamite! I'd like to see more variety in the gallery examples. Six pix chosen from a variety of areas. We have it a bit heavy on the sculpture side right now with no armor at all. I?d also like to see the stretching article returned to the article?s section. We had it in there then it went away during a rewrite some time ago. With that I think we b done as far as I can see. What else do we need?


"Do not go where the path may lead,
go instead where there is no path and leave a trail."
– Ralph Waldo Emerson

My blog: The (New) Eclectic Dragonfly. Some of my stuff at CafePress!

Joined: January 21, 2004
Posts: 1061
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Posted on Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:13 am
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Meh, I'm not feeling rushed. Historically, having a deadline means I actually finish stuff.
Just tell the grunt what you want done. We don't need to understand in order to obey Smile

-phong



-- CGMaille tutorials now hosted here at MAIL! --

Joined: March 3, 2002
Posts: 4378
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Location: tres piedras, new mexico

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Posted on Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:39 am
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it might help phong if images were suggested that fit the more diverse vision. i'm not very good at that. we already see the images i selected. Smile

there is a thread in the gallery forum that has people volunteering their work.. the thread title is "welcome page". i'd link it, but 98% chance that your connect speed is greater than 28.8kb/s.

kim


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

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