Call for Project Designers
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Joined: October 26, 2004
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Call for Project Designers
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Posted on Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:24 pm
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Lark Books will be publishing a new how-to book on chain mail techniques for jewelry. We?re seeking proposals from artists and designers for how-to jewelry projects?earrings, bracelets, neckwear, rings, brooches, and more?using any type of chain mail style or technique.

Cold connections and soldering may be used in construction as needed.
Any metal may be used. In addition, proposals for chain mail jewelry with the addition of beads, gems, and other items are encouraged.

Skill levels for projects may range from those suitable for beginners with few tools to accomplished metalsmiths.

For more information, please contact Terry Taylor via email: terry@larkbooks.com. Please attach one or two jpeg images of your work if available.

Joined: March 3, 2002
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Location: tres piedras, new mexico

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Posted on Fri Oct 29, 2004 7:09 pm
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ironicly we'd began this discussion in fund raising a couple days ago.

http://www.mailleartisans.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=4183

if anyone is intersted.

kim


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

Joined: April 15, 2002
Posts: 1819
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Location: Calgary, AB. Canada.

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Posted on Sat Oct 30, 2004 6:44 am || Last edited by Cynake on Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:47 am; edited 2 times in total
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[Edited to add: THIS IS NOT THE BOOK THAT WE DISCUSSED WRITING, YESTERDAY. THIS IS A PRIVATE PUBLISHER WHO MOST LIKELY SAW THAT IDEA (YESTERDAY), AND IS TRYING TO GET YOU TO DONATE CONTENT FOR FREE, INSTEAD OF WRITING IT FOR THE BOOK WE SUGGESTED M.A.I.L. COULD WRITE TO PAY OUR BILLS.

Please do not contact or volunteer content to Terry or Lark Books until we have this issue cleared up. Or, at least until you've read the rest of this thread as it has developed. The rest of this post is unedited from the time that I first posted it].

Hrm. I'm not familiar with Lark Books. From what I can tell, they publish crafty how-to books.

I assume they sell these books, and that Lark Books is a company.

Why would people be interested in donating their time and sharing their secrets, so that someone else can make money off it?

It'd be one thing if it was for free, to share the knowledge (like what we do here on MAIL), but.. just so a book company of people I don't know and aren't in the mailling community, can sell it and make money?

It'd be like, someone saying "I'm planning on selling some chainmaille. I could sure use some donations.. so.. if you're interestd in making some chainmaille for me to sell, show me some pictures and then if it's good, I'll take it and sell it! I love money! Who's up for this?"

Why not instead write our own book and sell it for ourselves? .. Like is being discussed in the fundraising area.

The only reason I see to join this, is what Kim pointed out, that any popularization of this book popularizes chainmaille in general.

Well, we can do that ourselves. Instead of "burgin52", who isn't part of this community and made his first post asking for us to donate our time to make him money (or whoever), why not either make it for free, or make it for ourselves? (Burgin52 = Editor/Owner of Lark books?).

I'm all for helping people out.. but.. if we're collectively writing this book and sending ideas for him, and he claims credit and takes the profit, it doesn't seem like that's a great idea. Except of course.. if some of you get a glimmer in your eye about being mentioned in a book, and of all the orders that might come in. (Though, how many orders are you going to get from a book that's telling people how easy it is to do it themselves?).

Not to be too negative, but it seems to me this is a neat way of making a book without having to pay an author. Anyone see any reason why we should do this, instead of perhaps, MAIL collectively writing a book and submitting it to Lark Books, and making money for us?

Or.. hrm.. Kim said he contacted Lark Books about this request, is this their reply? That we should instead just donate content? I'm confused. Seems to me like we're getting ripped off. Kim goes to Lark to say "We have this for a proposal", Lark comes to MAIL and says "I had this idea for a book, who'd like to donate content?" and cuts us out of the picture. Burgin52, could you provide us with more details and explain the process a little more please?

[Edited to add and rearrange some stuff].

Joined: August 23, 2004
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Posted on Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:03 am
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Has anyone e-mailed this person? I had the same reservations as Cynake when I first read this. I honestly have no interest in submiting anything to Lark or I would do it myself, I'm just currious.

Also, if anyone is considering sending pictures of their work to this e-mail address as they requested, a word of caution. Any image you send will most likely legaly become their property, and as there are very few laws governing the internet they could easily pass your work off as their own and you'd have no legal recourse.

Joined: April 15, 2002
Posts: 1819
Submissions: 1
Location: Calgary, AB. Canada.

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Posted on Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:38 am
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I'm doing a little more thinking here, and the more I think, the less I like it.

Here's what's happened so far:

1) On the 28th it gets brought up that MAIL could write and publish a book, and use this revenue to pay our bills, improve the site, whatever. We mention a few possibilities, like Lark.

2) On the 29th, a new member arrives and starts this thread. He says in a by-the-way fashion, that this company called Lark Books just so happens to have decided to write a book about chainmaille.

3) This appears to be from a community member, just strolling along and giving us the news. But the member is brand new, joined *after* the discussion about a book, and according to his profile details, he *is* Terry Tailor or Lark Books.

4) Openly, he goes as "Burgin52". He doesn't happen to mention in his post that he is Terry Tailor or otherwise identify himself as such. He just says to write to Terry Tailor if you're interested.

..

Now, a few other suspicious things. The message is quite vague. Here we are discussing writing a book for Lark Books or some other company, and then there's this message about donating content for a book exactly the same as the one we thought of, from Lark books... how many people might have just assumed that what they donated was going to the book we were talking about, and not one Lark was writing themselves?

Burgin52 makes no refference to the thread the day before. Is this coincidence that they two appeared back-to-back? Would Burgin52 (Terry Tailor) be unaware that this was brought up? Almost certainly not. He's almost certinaly aware of the other thread, and I can't see any circumstance that in fact, the other thread didn't *cause* him to be here. Does Burgin52 make any effort to distinguish the book he called for donations on from the book that just so happened to be mentioned writing the day before? Nope. That's funny. He knows there's an identical project, but doesn't clear that up.

If you're interested you're supposed to contact him. By the way, send him some pictures of your work too. That would make sense, if you want to know who to listen to, you want to see samples of their work. Though, like Diedre says, you're actually submitting work to him in the process.

Individually a few of these items are okay and are explainable, but together, the picture they're painting, to me, is that we're being purposefully decieved. On top of that, that they're trying to jump the gun and say there's a book idea already in progress... cutting us, (and the chance of us going to another publisher with this book) out of the picture.

Overall I'm getting a very suspicious feeling about this, and I suggest people hold off and do not email Terry at all, about anything. Let one of our admins figure out details.

Sad thing is, you're allowed to run around and steal people's ideas like this, even directly. And there's no such thing as a patent for a book idea, it's whoever gets it to market first. And, we've amassed so much information here, pretty much anyone could actually go and write a book off of this research. I'm surprised this hasn't happened already, and.. all the more power to people if they'd like to gather techniques and ideas from this site to write a book (Kim accurately points out that the ideas are always free, only the specific images and articles copyrighted).. but when we think up the idea and a day later a publisher says *they're* writing a book, is vague about who and how... that's not the kind of people I think we'd like to deal with.

I'd even say due to confusion issues, an admin or mod should edit either this thread, or Burgin52's post, temporarily, so people don't end up donating content before they know what they're getting into, and are aware that this isn't the book that we suggested writing to pay our bills.

[Edited to fix a double-negative]

Joined: March 3, 2002
Posts: 4373
Submissions: 79
Location: tres piedras, new mexico

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Posted on Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:12 am
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said he'd give me information late next week.

i told him my images are public domain and they could use them for free if they wanted.. that's the deal i made with everyone a couple years ago. and that would be sweet to have my work published in a book. of course, if they try to copyright my images i'll burn down their headquarters. Wink hahahah

lark books is a company out of asheville, north carolina. they published great wire jewelry, textile techniques in metal and wire jewelry techniqies. GWJ is the one most known around here.. and of the 3, metal textiles is the best-made one.. it features art pieces, and i wouldn't mind having my work displayed like that. WJT is pretty lame, but my sister liked it so i gave it to her.. (lark gave it to me, so why not..)

i just looked at the metal textile book and there is no mention of who owns the copyright of the images in it.

i did not contact larkbooks before this thread was posted. i don't know if they knew that we were already discussing a book here on MAIL. although i told them and put a link to the thread.

i enquired about monetary compensation. i'll post his reply in this thread when i get it.

i'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt. the person had to register to post. it seems obvious they registered for that reason.
this may have been a partial response to tim mccreights' new section in "the complete metalsmith" he published this year. it has a "chain mail" section in it.. or, both of these could be in response to rising interest in maille in general.

i do not believe that any moderator should alter this persons post. it is unhealthy to live in fear like that, and we would only be harming our reputation by doing so. anyone submitting things does it of their own free will.

i understand your concern, but the more i think about it, the lark book and the book being discussed in fundraising are very different books.

time will tell all.

kim


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

Joined: August 20, 2004
Posts: 251
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Location: calgary alberta canada

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Posted on Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:51 pm
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yea.. looked into it.. it's a lark.. or a fake. they want to make money and give nothing to the people that give the info. you have to sign a contract that states the weave and idea's are property of lark books and your name does not get entered. and you see no money from what they make

they are not a well known or reputable company according to the BBB

Joined: April 15, 2002
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Location: Calgary, AB. Canada.

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Posted on Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:44 pm
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BlackFire wrote:
yea.. looked into it.. it's a lark.. or a fake. they want to make money and give nothing to the people that give the info. you have to sign a contract that states the weave and idea's are property of lark books and your name does not get entered. and you see no money from what they make

they are not a well known or reputable company according to the BBB


Thanks for doing some investigation on our behalf.

I think it's normal that the weaves and ideas are property of Lark books.. otherwise you could have people saying "Nope, I want it out of the book. Stop publishing it." The rest of it though.. the underhanded way they went about this, the not crediting or giving royalties to the writers, etc etc, are long past where I draw the line.

We should keep an eye on Lark books from now on, and watch what they publish. Everything on this site is copyrighted. Weaves, instructions, articles, etc. If any of it shows up in one of their books, in any form, they owe the submitters royalties, and they should sue for those. In addition to that, this thread serves as excellent proof of their intent. I suggest admins find IP's and call ISPs to verify his ID so if it comes to that, we can use this in court on our behalf.

Kim, just because you have stated that your pictures are public domain, does not qualify for them to sell them. You cannot sell other people's stuff, even if it's in public domain. So unless you've signed an agreement that you have allowed them to use your property for comercial purposes, they still can't... so that's good. It's still up to you of course.

Joined: March 3, 2002
Posts: 4373
Submissions: 79
Location: tres piedras, new mexico

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Posted on Sat Oct 30, 2004 3:07 pm
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like i said, i know where they live. Very Happy

as long as they don't think they own my images they can use them. samew with you or anyone else. i'm not greedy.

kim


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

Joined: March 26, 2002
Posts: 142
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Location: Saskatoon, Sk, Canada

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Posted on Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:27 am
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TRL publishes one chainmail book and would definetly consider another. I promise that TRL would give MAIL a deal that no book company could match.

I can tell you that the royalties we pay each year for "The Art of Chainmail" are in the thousands of dollars.

Joined: March 3, 2002
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Location: tres piedras, new mexico

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Posted on Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:37 am
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i would be interested in hearing more about this.

i'd rather do business with someone i trusted, and i trust you jon.

kim


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

Joined: July 30, 2003
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Posted on Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:34 am
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How many copies of "Art of Chainmail" do you sell a year Jon (approx.)

?? lol

with the backing of TRL I would gladly contribute stuff! (esp. if the royalties can be donated to MAIL or put toward future orders lol Razz )

but this gets better when we have someone trusted on our side some one who is ONE OF US!!! ONE OF US! ONE OF US! ONE OF US!

~stares him down and chases him~


<a href="http://www.greatbodyofwater.blogspot.com">Great Body Of Water Music Blog</a> run by me and my friend.

Joined: September 09, 2003
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Posted on Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:58 am
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indeed... i havent dealt with TRL in the past, but i would be willing to spend a bit of time helping out with that. ive heard nothing but praise for trrl and jon....


you all laugh cuz im different. i laugh cuz your all the same
the ostrich is a freakish reminder that satan is alive and well and wants harm to come to us

Joined: March 3, 2002
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Location: tres piedras, new mexico

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Posted on Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:43 am
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hockey, check the book thread in fund raising for a couple more specifics


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

Joined: March 3, 2002
Posts: 4373
Submissions: 79
Location: tres piedras, new mexico

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Posted on Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:13 pm
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when i asked terry of lark books about compensation i got this response:

"Kim, I'm not sure what you're asking. Designers will be individually compensated for their designs, to which they retain copyright."


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

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