Help Request - Byzantine Diamond
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Joined: May 23, 2019
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Help Request - Byzantine Diamond
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Posted on Thu May 23, 2019 9:37 pm
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Hi, Everyone,

Recently I came across this tutorial on YouTube for Byzantine Diamond weaving.

I would like to make this design so that each unit, when orientated as a square (as opposed to a diamond), equals about 1" in width.

The video lists a few different versions of this design. I'm interested in making either of these two versions:
- Version 1 - 14g 10.5mm ID (quantity: 2) & 14g 5.5mm ID (quantity: 32) - this comes out to about 1" per unit
- Version 2 - 16g 7.5mm ID (quantity: 2) & 16g 4.25mm ID (quantity: 32)

Unfortunately, these ring sizes are not available from The Ring Lord (or at least I had no luck finding them). I've tried scaling and coming up with comparable substitutes, but I'm not well-versed in this yet and I cannot afford to order incorrect sizes -- at these current dimensions, I'd be making between 60 & 80 units.

If you were to place closed versions of the smaller jump rings in the same configuration as what's pictured in my avatar, that shape needs to equal ~1".

If someone on this forum is willing to tell me which TRL sizes would work for this design (and equal about 1"/unit when oriented as a square), I'd really appreciate it. I would most likely be ordering them in some form of mirror and/or anodized aluminum (if that matters).

I'm open to other gauge and size configurations (~1" per unit is the biggest sticking point)

Thank you for considering this request.

Joined: June 18, 2013
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Posted on Sat May 25, 2019 7:19 am
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Scaling weaves that use a single wire size is easy if you have the aspect ratio(s) (AR). If you have the ring measurements, you can calculate the AR: it's just the inner diameter divided by the wire diameter.

Since you have a list of ring sizes that work, you can also convert their measurements directly.

For wire size, never just go by "gauge," as there are multiple gauge systems. Some suppliers (like Aussie Maille, who made the video you linked to) use AWG for everything; others, including TRL, use SWG for some sizes. It's annoying, but fortunately it's easy to convert from one system to the other.

Wire size: 14 AWG (as mentioned in the video description) = 1.6 mm = 16 SWG (which is used by TRL).

ID: 5.5 mm = about 7/32" (which is 5.55 mm)
10.5 mm is a bit bigger than 3/8" (9.5 mm), a bit smaller than 7/16" (11.1 mm). Given how the small rings connect around the big one, I'd lean toward the smaller size here.

The TRL sizes I gave here have actual ARs of 6.3 and 3.6 (per their stats), which are close to the ARs of the rings given in the video description (they vary by size, but are generally 6.4-6.3 and 3.5 or so).

So to buy from TRL, I'd try 16g 7/32" and 16g 3/8" rings, both of which are regular stock in both bright and anodized aluminum. They're not precisely the same as the rings given in the video description, but should work.


Added before I hit "Submit":
"Should work" isn't a good enough answer, especially with a tight weave like this where there is little wiggle room in ring sizes. I had some TRL 16g 7/32" anodized aluminum and 16g 3/8" stainless steel on hand, so I tried it. It was *really* tight and I messed up a few rings, but I did get the whole unit to come together. The corner rings wiggle a little, the center is totally stiff. It's 1" wide when oriented as a square.

Good luck!

Joined: May 23, 2019
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Posted on Sun May 26, 2019 8:56 pm
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Thanks so much for your thoughtful response, KZK. I'm still coming along when it comes to AR, etc.

The rigidity you mention in your post edit concerns me a bit. This is going to be more of a jewelry piece. Can you recommend something similar? It's okay if it's a little over 1", but if you have the exact dimension, that helps me order correctly.

Thanks again!

Joined: June 18, 2013
Posts: 16
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Posted on Mon May 27, 2019 3:05 am
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The easiest way to make it floppier is to decrease the wire diameter of the big rings, or use a single thicker ring. This changes the AR of the big ring(s), but that's the point--changing the AR of some or all rings changes how tight or loose a weave is. Keep the small rings the same, since they're perfect here.

I did find some 16g 3/8" (all rings sizes here are using TRL's nomenclature) anodized aluminum, so tried it because the material and cut can make a difference. It came together much more easily than when I used steel, but the final unit was still quite stiff. I considered trying 18g 3/8" rings instead, but those seemed too wimpy. So then I tried using a single 14g 3/8" (another size TRL carries as regular stock) as my big ring. It produced a very flexible unit exactly 1" wide. I then tried a 12g 3/8", but that was a nonstarter.

So I'd say you should use TRL's 16g 7/32" AA (WD: 1.6 mm, ID: 5.7mm) for the small rings, and 14g 3/8" AA (WD: 2 mm, ID: 9.9 mm) for the big rings (just one per unit, not the two in the tutorial).

Joined: May 23, 2019
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Posted on Mon May 27, 2019 1:00 pm
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I'm kind of married to having two big rings for the design, as each stack will contain one black ring and one white ring (to make the design reversible for dark and light garments).

Is there any merit to stacking a 16g 3/8" on top of an 18g 3/8"? I guess they won't completely line up, so you'll see the other color (kind of defeats the point of making it reversible).

I would be using anodized aluminum.

Thanks again for taking the time to hash this out.

Joined: June 18, 2013
Posts: 16
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Posted on Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:44 am
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That would probably result in units that flex in one direction more than the other. Just use two 18g (SWG).

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