Power coiling rig?
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Power coiling rig?
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Posted on Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:28 pm
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How do you use a drill for coiling without it just making a mess of the coil? Last time I tried (admittedly, my setup wasn't particulary... ready, yet) it just made a couple super uneven, really spaced out coils, and then overlapped when i tried to change the angle to get the coils tighter, and the drill just goes way too fast to control anything. So, I stopped after a couple rotations. Maybe it would've worked better if I kept going longer, but I scared to try lol. Furthermore, I can't even imagine a wire feeding setup that both provides enough tension for a coil, and still lets the wire come out freely.
So like, how do I set it up so that I can use a drill for coiling? Sorry if this is a stupid question, or like too simple of a question to make a whole thread about but like... I'm getting so tired of doing this by hand lol

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Posted on Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:36 am || Last edited by Konstantin the Red on Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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Of course you're tired of that. It's hard on the fingers.

(ETA: easier on the fingers anyway, if you have a crankhandle type mandrel and you make a short coil of wire into rings, cut this off, and slip the short coil onto the handle. Now you can turn the crank handle without it rubbing in your hand.)

And don't fret: asking even the stupid questions gets them out of the way so you can then ask the smart ones. (Educational, ain't it?)

There *is* a knack to it. Using a variable-speed drill is part of the knack -- it can be persuaded to turn slow. Most such drills have a little knob on the trigger that you can turn to govern how fast it will turn the bit. Little bit of trigger -- slow turning. More trigger, turns faster. Tighten the knob down to where the trigger can't completely depress gives speed control turning chuck and mandrel.

A visit to the Library: Gallery: Tools will show you at least two no-hands wire feeders. The one drawn by me in Gallery: Tools delivers its wire tension by having the eyescrew -- a small one -- screwed well down into the wooden body of the wire feed rig, so that the wire has to pass through it and then bend upward a bit to get over and around the mandrel. This snugging down gives all the tension you need on the wire.

While I've seen power coiling managed freehand with a gloved hand feeding the wire on the mandrel, and the other hand running the drill, generally with the mailler man sitting crosslegged and managing things in his lap, I don't really recommend this way for home power-coiling. I like no-hands. The speed of the drill's turning is one reason why: the hands free wire feed rig does all the controlling, once it is firmly affixed to some support: I use my patio rail and a C clamp. You could just screw the parts into a wooden workbench top. Or fabricate the whole thing into the end of a length of steel pipe or square tube stock, using an angle grinder and a power drill. Whatever you've got for tools and materials.

Coiling defects:

Stretched-out coils aren't a serious problem, though of course you don't get as many rings turned per mandrel-ful. You can still cut and weave these. Maybe a little less angle and a slower backing up by you as your mandrel fills up and your coil lengthens, next time if you're using a hands-free feed thingie like mine.

The knack comes in in getting the mandrel angled *just* right to have the wire lay down links touching each other -- my drawing suggests 5 to 10 degrees off of perpendicular to the direction of the wire and the body of the hands-free wire feeding rig: they are parallel.

If your mandrel is too perpendicular, you get coil-overs, where your darn wire starts coiling over what you'd coiled over already, and correspondingly larger ID at that. Stop, pull drill and mandrel away from the feed-eye (the direction the wire was going anyway), letting the over-coil unroll off until all the miscoiled wire is off the coil and you're down to where it was before things went out of control. Push the wire you've pulled off the coil back into the feeding eyescrew(s). Angle the mandrel properly by swinging the drill a little bit to your right, and try coiling again. With a feeder clamped to something solid, you can push or pull the mandrel gently as it turns to get the wire coil neatly solid, though a gap or two will not make a difference.

After a long time of not coiling wire, it usually takes me about a coil and a half to get the mandrel slanted just right again and not bump anything into a coil-over or a spaghetti-ball, a really messy coil-over that you fix by pulling the wire back off of the mess and trying again. The knack of the coiling has to come back; just need to keep doing it a bit, until eventually I'm ready to turn the mandrel full speed.

Wire feed becomes a tangle-icious problem back at your wire supply. I just cut segments of wire off of the big coil I got it in. With the wire cut loose and only just so long, I can let it twist and turn as it wants on the way up to the mandrel turning in the feeder. I also wear shop goggles since there's this wire randomly floating around waving its sharp cut end about.

http://www.mailleartisans.org/gallery/gallerydisplay.php?key=900


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Posted on Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:37 pm
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I've been talking about this method for a dozen years, often from a big-letters SAFETY point of view

In Nov. 2009, I wrote:
Chubbs, it's a quick project. If you don't bum some fence staples from the basement or drive a nail into a piece of wood and bend it over into an inverted U shape, buy a small box of small eyescrews, a C clamp or something to clamp the feed apparatus to something solid if you aren't just screwing the eyescrews into the top of your workbench, or else use a short piece of scrap wood to put the eyescrews in. [and clamp it]

The whole deal is about five minutes' worth of screwing eyescrews well into wood. You want your loop that controls the wire's passage to be somewhat lower into the wood than the top of the mandrel lying upon the wood, so the wire has to bend up a bit to go around the mandrel. Tensions things properly. Likely you will want something to the right of the mandrel, the other side from the eyescrew feeding the wire on, to restrain the mandrel's tendency to skitter to the right when you hit the trigger on the power drill.

Martin may care to cradle his lengthy mandrels -- 8 feet! Wow! -- in something lined with a little felt to damp those vibes.

Gloves and rotating power tools do not mix -- ask a machinist or lathe operator. The work (your wire) can snag a glove, dragging the hand right into the business -- with the DeWalt, one horsepower of power trying to wind your hand into your coil. At that point you are one hartin' bustard -- you don't stop a 1hp rotating tool by pulling at it. So, totally ditch the gloves, and keep your hands back on the grappling end of that drill, which is away from where all that potential energy is getting wound up, over at the hands-free wire feed.


And in July 2007, I wrote:

I do wish I could persuade Anon [further up-thread -- KtR] to stop powerwinding with a glove! Gloves can get caught in the coiling even easier than a bare hand and wrap you up in your work, to the detriment of skin, bones and joints, and the process invariably wears heck out of the glove. ONE glove. A scrap of wood with a hole through its middle to pass wire through works even better and saves on gloves. Or glove.

I say there's a better road and I wish everyone were on it so we can powerwind like sensible people. Sensible people being defined here as people with all their blood on the inside! Coif Cool Smiley Follow the GROPP -- the GOLDEN RULE OF PAINLESS POWERWINDING is Never Touch Wire While The Drill Is Turning -- not with fingers, not with gloves, not with anything but the wire guide, and there are several designs of hands-free, very safe gizmos you can build in a few minutes to half an hour to put wire on your mandrel for coiling. They can work on a couple of different principles and mainly vary in how much they enclose the coiling action. I've submitted a pic to this site's Gallery: Tools of what I use, which is a design that is about as open, and as minimalistic, as these things get. Others wrap the whole business within two halves of a block, closed around the mandrel. This works too. The great thing about either is that your hands are far away from the buildup of spring tension and potential energy, being back holding onto the power drill.

With a setup like this, you don't need a low-power slower-turning drill to be safe and you can put out more feet of coil per hour of coiling time. There is also very little practical limit on mandrel length, which also means more time actually coiling and less time spent setting up a coil to go.


The very longest powerwinding mandrel I ever heard of, searchbuttoning the topic onsite, was eight feet. Bet he needed a lot of room.


'The Minstrel Boy to the War is gone...'

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Posted on Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:49 pm
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Take this with a grain of salt because I have not yet begun making my own coils. But I recall that, many MANY moons ago in the SCA, I knew someone who made his own rings, and he had made himself a wire guide. It was just a flat rectangle of metal that he'd bent in half so that it could fit over the mandrel. But he used it to help guide the wire and keep it snug up against the coil. In his setup, the drill was clamped and he worked by the mandrel, which as you can see from comments later below, is dangerous because your hands are near rotating parts.

I really like Konstantin the Red's rig; if I'm understanding correctly, your hands are on the drill, allowing you to control the speed (if you want to change it), the angle the wire's going onto the mandrel, and you have to draw the drill towards you. It looks a whole lot safer, and I love how the eyebolts are guiding the wire. This is probably what I'll set up when I eventually get started. Thanks, Konstantin!

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Posted on Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:39 pm
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It's for sure a practice thing. If you are going freehand ("with a gloved hand feeding the wire on the mandrel, and the other hand running the drill") you will learn how fast to move your wire holding hand so that wire wraps at an even rate around your mandrel.

I'd suggest practicing with a soft wire as it will be easier to control.

You can take a small block of wood, drill a hole in it, then hold that while running the wire through the hole and onto the mandrel. This will help protect against getting a finger squished between the wire and rod.

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Posted on Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:47 pm
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You're welcome, Jackalgirl. Yep, hands on the drill all the time. (Note, if it wasn't clear, that if you use an end-slot mandrel to anchor the wire end, everything's in reverse including the screw pitch of the coils, and you walk in towards the coiling rig while the wire coil builds on the other side of it, away from you. Which end of the mandrel you anchor the wire at determines these things.)

I like the handheld wood feed block too, and have used it -- always with hand turned mandrels as I recall. The bent-metal feed guide thingus is another good solution. These tools take vulnerable flesh and wornout gloves out of the picture while doing the job.

Soft metals or fine gauges of harder metals work nicely to train on.


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Posted on Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:47 pm
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Thank you all for your suggestions. So, I've gathered that I should not have my hand on the moving parts under any circumstances (which, is good because one of the things I was confused/afraid of is how bad wire could mess up my hand while moving at that speed).
I'm still not really clear on what you guys mean by a "wire guide"? The block of wood that I drill the hole in; is that attached to the plank I have everything else set up on? Or is it, like, a free floating thing that basically replaces your hand for guiding the wire? Is it in addition to, or in place of the eyescrews? And then, I can't really visualize the wire guide that Jackalgirl is talking about? The metal "fits over the mandrel?" Is that a thing that's important for all wire guides to do?
Aside from that thing, I'd like to know, does it actually matter if the wire is anchored at the close or far side of the mandrel? I've been anchoring it at the close side and building the coil away from me, I don't see why that wouldn't still be fine for power coiling.

Anyways thank you all for the advice! Also it's good to know that using a drill for this takes practice, so that I don't get disouraged when I immediately mess it up at the beginning haha

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Posted on Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:36 pm
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ashemdragon253 wrote:

I'm still not really clear on what you guys mean by a "wire guide"? The block of wood that I drill the hole in; is that attached to the plank I have everything else set up on? Or is it, like, a free floating thing that basically replaces your hand for guiding the wire?


A wire guide is, most simply put, anything that guides the wire to keep the coils flush against one another.

In Konstantin's setup, he's put two eyebolts into his railing, and runs the wire through them. The eyebolts make it so that the wire winds onto the mandrel consistently.

I haven't been able to figure out how to insert his actual picture in this post, but click on this link to see it:

http://www.mailleartisans.org/gallery/gallery_image.php?key=900

Additionally, his wire is on a reel. He's not touching it at all. It runs through the eyebolts onto the mandrel -- it feeds itself into the coil.

In this setup, your hands would be on the drill. There's a notch in the mandrel where it goes in the drill's chuck and he's inserted the wire end there, then he slid a washer down to jam that wire end down so that it doesn't pop out.

As the wire coils, it's coiling along the mandrel away from the drill. So you, as the operator, would slowly walk backwards to allow the coil to build away from you, while operating the drill at a speed that lets you make sure that the wire coils neatly. You're never touching the wire (the eyebolts do that for you).

ashemdragon253 wrote:
And then, I can't really visualize the wire guide that Jackalgirl is talking about? The metal "fits over the mandrel?" Is that a thing that's important for all wire guides to do?


I'm afraid that I don't have a picture for what I described, but essentially what the mailler in the SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism) was doing was opposite. He clamped the drill to his work bench to the left of where he stood, and he (carefully and slowly!) fed the wire to the mandrel using his left hand. Like in Konstantin's rig, the coil fed away from the drill chuck -- meaning, it "grew" towards his right-hand side.

He, too, wanted to make sure that the wire fed cleanly onto the mandrel and that he didn't end up with coils that were spaced out. So he used a small rectangle of steel that he'd bent in half, with (as I recall) an angle of about 90 degrees, which he held in his right hand. He would hold that over the mandrel (that is, the concave, or inside, part of the corner would fit over the mandrel).

He would press the left edge of his wire guide against the incoming wire, using it to guide the wire to wind it tightly to the coil, and as the coil built, he'd always be sliding the wire guide rightwards (and he'd also have to shuffle rightwards, too).

The danger here is that even with the wire guide, your hands are near the rotating mandrel. This is reasonably safe if you're operating carefully and slowly, but if you lose your focus or are wearing loose gloves or whatever, there's an opportunity for your finger to get caught up in the wire, and unless you've got some kind of special setup, there's no easy way to turn off the drill at this point.

With Konstantin's much superior setup, your hands are on the drill. All that has to happen, if some unsafe condition happens, is for your finger to come off the trigger.

I hope this makes sense -- I know it's a lot of words, because I don't have a picture, and my writing might not be all that clear.

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Posted on Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:49 pm
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Jackalgirl, ya done good. Thanks.

I could have the wire supply on a reel, if I had a reel/wire jenny, which it happens I don't. So I just cut segments of wire -- about three turns round the wire supply in its big lumberyard-supplied coil the size of a bicycle wheel -- suitable to fill up my mandrel rods.

Sooo... I only need the eyescrew nearest the coiling mandrel. But, if I fed my wire off a wire jenny or a spool on an axle, I would want the second, outer eyescrew there to hold the wire after I cut it so I don't have to chase the wire end around the workbench or the shop floor, a/k/a my patio. (As for controlling wire tension by twisting that eyescrew, that was just a theoretical idea that wouldn't pan out in practice so well. The real tension control is in having the wire have to bend up a little from the eyescrew to the mandrel; that's enough.)

What J-girl said about "wire guide." I've usually said "feed blocks," but they all do the job -- guiding the wire onto the mandrel by this method or that. Essentially, you need a hole to push the wire through, and keep this hole full of wire passingh through it near the turning mandrel.

My drawing shows for, um, density of content, two different ways to anchor the wire end on the mandrel; you would only use the one or the other on any one coil of wire: 1) Way up top left, the End Slot, put in there with a hacksaw; shove the wire end in and start turning. 2) the Notch & Washer -- notches (more than one for convenience) filed into the mandrel to accept the wire ends in them, and the washer to be jammed down over that wire end. 1 builds a wire coil so you start far off and slowly move in towards the feed block; 2 starts you close in, the wire coil builds towards your belly, and you slowly back off, as Jackalgirl understands. Either one makes little circlets out of your wire supply. Since the two techniques make circlets of opposite screw pitch, the wrong screw pitch may impede how you like to weave your links into your mail, nota bene. Maybe Not A Bennie!

Hey, Ashemdragon, I notice all three of us are in this end of California; me in the Hueneme/Oxnard area, J-girl in San Diego, you somewhere hereabouts.


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Posted on Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:50 am
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So I've got a little time to zero in on Ashemdragon's specific question:
ashemdragon253 wrote:
I'm still not really clear on what you guys mean by a "wire guide"? The block of wood that I drill the hole in; is that attached to the plank I have everything else set up on? Or is it, like, a free floating thing that basically replaces your hand for guiding the wire? Is it in addition to, or in place of the eyescrews?


That gadget, a wire guide I usually call a "feed block," as I have for decades from the time when I was helping assorted Creative Anachronists learn butted mail from scratch (late 1970's) is in place of the eyescrew coiling rig -- free-floating, as you put it. They do the same job -- they guide wire. The feed block is handheld, with wire passing through its hole and out between your middle and ring fingers onto the mandrel from not very far away. The danger point with such a manual feed block is when you come near a wire cut-end: you don't want that passing through your feedblock and then whirling like a propeller blade. Ouch and blood. So, first back the tension off of there -- you will see the coil relax off the mandrel and then start getting spiral ripples along its length, at which point definitely stop because you've gotten it every bit as loose as you should. Happens more often with power winding because it turns faster. I've said before that the wire end still can be used, as you can squeeze it down onto the mandrel with a pair of slipjoint pliers -- they reach around -- once you've let off the accumulated spring tension in the coil. Perfectly good links, and no waste.

The hands-free eyescrew feedblock and suchlike systems are fixed in place, not floating around in your hand, and the simple ones need the mandrel to move back and forth freely. I got this idea from another, now gone, mailler board.

So, you don't mix them together; pick one.


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Posted on Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:34 pm
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Ah, okay, I think I get it now, thank you all again. See, the idea of having either the eyescrews or a wire guide is just messing with me a little because the way I do it currently is I have my free hand right up against the mandrel, providing tension and acting as a wire guide, and I also have the eyescrews in place because my coil is kinda just... sitting on its own on the counter with a heavy-ish piece of decor in the middle of it, so the whole thing would get dragged to the mandrel or otherwise make a mess if not for the eyscrews. At least I think it would.
I was gonna originally use Konstantin's rig, so I've just always had the screws there. Cuz I basically set it up and then tried it with the drill, and the drill was immediately way too hard to control (I was also having trouble anchoring the wire end at this point, so that MAY have been part of it?) so I gave up on that and just started coiling by hand without making any modifications (other than putting a c-clamp on my mandrel that I wrap the wire end around to anchor it).
Anyways, I guess the way to make those eyescrews work to guide the wire would be to have the mandrel a little bit above them so the wire bends up like you said, and also probably to keep the mandrel closer to the eyescrew? I dunno why to keep it close but I know that when I use my hand its right up against the mandrel and that feels way more secure/reliable than when its farther away, so there's probably something to that? Idk

I have a friend coming over soon who's interested in the chainmaille-making process, so he wants to help me make some rings. He IS an engineer (electrical, but still) so maybe with the combined power of the three brain cells between us we'll be able to figure out how to make the drill work for this lol.

PS yeah I guess we do all live in socal. I'm, like, a little bit north of LA, about an hour or so away from oxnard I guess.

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Posted on Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:36 pm
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Ashemdragon, you've got the overall idea -- you're just rather nervous and you haven't picked up the knack yet. That'll come. Your drill is a modern variable-speed one, right??

Ahem -- top to bottom.
You don't need the free hand up against the mandrel with the hands-free eyescrew feeder rig; those small eyescrews do it all. Their loop is about 1/4" across. This kind of eye size is mostly eyescrews, not the larger eye bolts, of the same sort of form on a larger scale.

I guess by coil you mean your coiled wire supply? I took to snipping segments of wire off it for coiling links with.

Positive wire-anchoring is good. Even essential. Fine-gauge wire and a less-than-max diameter mandrel allow you to put a right angle bend in the end of the wire and slide that bent end into the drill chuck either in the groove of a chuck jaw if there's enough room, or between jaws, into the body of the chuck. A better anchor is the notch & washer. That wire won't come loose until you knock that washer loose. Part of your control problem is using that c-clamp on the mandrel in the first place. You're whirling an unbalanced mass round and round. Get a washer.

Easiest way to get the "mandrel a little bit above" the eyescrew is to screw the eyescrew deeper into the wood, even by drilling a slight countersinking into the wood for the eye to get down into if needed. And the eyescrew is pretty close to the mandrel -- about an inch or less. If the mandrel wasn't trying to skitter away from the eyescrew and the direction of the wire -- since it's turning clockwise -- the mandrel might well come right up against that eyescrew. You're right about that close up thing -- it works that way.


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Posted on Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:46 pm
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I just added images of my power coiling guide to the gallery queue. Should appear soon-ish.

I use a "clamp" method. There are a handful of specifics that make it safe (measures against Konstantin's mention of the danger of "propeller wire"). I'll link out another post when it gets through the queue, because it's pretty difficult to point to the specifics without the image.


while(!project.isFinished())
project.addRing();
// Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Eo.n Fper MFe.s Wsm Caws G0.8-1.6 I2.4-8.0 Pn Dcdejst Xw1 S07

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Posted on Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:10 pm
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I think TCGuy is describing a hinged wooden block, of two halves, that clamps itself around the mandrel and a bit of the coil. The passage to admit the mandrel may be drilled out big enough to take both the mandrel and the coil diameters, either as one single big diameter, or else drilled with a step in its diameters. The larger diameter is on the side of the block the coil comes out of. Somewhere in there is a way to control the wire feed onto the turning mandrel -- an eyescrew on the side of the block is one solution; another is a hole drilled into the block to stick the wire through and onto the mandrel. (This setup works best with mandrels that have anchor holes drilled in them; you can line up the holes to get the wire end in.) You can keep an eye on what you're doing if your feed-gadget/block/tool uses an eyescrew, out in the open -- which works with Notch & Washer anchoring: in through the eye, maybe bend the wire end, up to the notch and on with the washer. Crafty maillers have made such tools both ways, completely enclosed in the block (no propeller wire) or wide open (could whip wire around -- hands away!). They've even made this very thing entirely out of steel, cut out to hook over the mandrel, with a screw with a hole through it and maybe a wing nut on it to feed the wire, again right there under your gaze. (This model is usually a free-moving feed tool while the mandrel stays right where it is, say in a windlass setup with a power drill at one end. Some SCA person came up with that one; he probably made armor and other steel stuff too.) 'S all good; they work.

A thought:

Either the feed device -- or hand -- free-moves back and forth along the mandrel rod, or the mandrel rod must move, and just as freely. Whatever you use, one or the other is going to happen.

A little piece of nylon where the mandrel rests, or similarly a Teflon glide, will reduce friction on a fixed feeder like mine, thus load on the drill -- keeps it cool, and helps the mandrel not try to skitter when it starts turning. All I did with my rig was rasp some wood away from there. Sawing a small, narrow V notch in the wood would accomplish the same thing if you don't have a rasp or a round/half-round file to use.


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Posted on Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:22 pm
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Image is up. Link.
I also added a handful of additional descriptions with the image itself.


while(!project.isFinished())
project.addRing();
// Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Eo.n Fper MFe.s Wsm Caws G0.8-1.6 I2.4-8.0 Pn Dcdejst Xw1 S07

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