Half Persian 2 Sheet 4 in 1 (3 of 3): Half Persian 2 in 1
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Half Persian 2 Sheet 4 in 1 (3 of 3): Half Persian 2 in 1
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Posted on Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:45 pm
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I've been recently meddling considerably with Half Persian 2 in 1 Sheet 4, and subsequently Half Persian 2 in 1 Sheet 4 Box, and Half Persian 2 in 1 Spine, but never bothered to make "Half Persian 2 in 1", because it has to collapse into a 2 in 1 Chain. There's even a picture of it in the CGI sample image for 2 in 1 Chain.

What I don't understand, is, what's going on here: Half Persian 2 in 1. It doesn't look like what is shown in the 2 in 1 Chain sample. The chain is being held at each end in the sample picture as though it's being held in place and would otherwise collapse, which would be the case with actual HP2-1. None of the four sample pictures, nor the description helps either.

When it comes down to it, I could likely reproduce what is shown, since the picture is relatively clear. I just would like to understand what's going on first, and have no reason to want to produce this otherwise, since my understanding is that "Half Persian 2 in 1" exists in theory, but not in practice (without collapsing).


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Posted on Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:40 pm
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HP2-1, is not a coherent image. It is one pattern on the left, another on the right. I don’t see that it has a place in our library.


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Posted on Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:19 pm
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The weave Half Persian 2 in 1 is not the theoretical Half Persian 2 in 1 as seen in 2 in 1 Chain (just re-stating it...).
Each cell of the weave contains 1 ring with 2 in 1 connections, the other with 4 in 1 connections. It has TE connection, which by definition a 2 in 1 weave cannot have (you need 3 rings connected to do that!).

Can't quite make full sense of where it fits in classification, though.
Charmed and Charm Linkage looks super similar.... Magically colored image, as usual.
Top is HP2-1 image, bottom is Charm Linkage image.
Green = 2 in 1 rings.
Blue = 4 in 1 rings.
Cyan = "added" 4 in 1 rings in charm.
Magenta = "added" 2 in 1 rings in charm.
Note that the blue rings are spiral 2 in 1, while the green rings alternate the side that they're on.
In any case, it's getting further and further away from any standard "half persian".

Narnia's Scaled 2 in 1 chain is the only real Half Persian 2 in 1, because she used cousin interactions to keep the form.


while(!project.isFinished())
project.addRing();
// Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Eo.n Fper MFe.s Wsm Caws G0.8-1.6 I2.4-8.0 Pn Dcdejst Xw1 S07

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Posted on Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:57 pm
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With that colouring, it seems only the Middle parti a inkoherent.
TrenchCoatGuy wrote:
The weave Half Persian 2 in 1 is not the theoretical Half Persian 2 in 1 as seen in 2 in 1 Chain (just re-stating it...).
Each cell of the weave contains 1 ring with 2 in 1 connections, the other with 4 in 1 connections. It has TE connection, which by definition a 2 in 1 weave cannot have (you need 3 rings connected to do that!).

Can't quite make full sense of where it fits in classification, though.
Charmed and Charm Linkage looks super similar.... Magically colored image, as usual.
Top is HP2-1 image, bottom is Charm Linkage image.
Green = 2 in 1 rings.
Blue = 4 in 1 rings.
Cyan = "added" 4 in 1 rings in charm.
Magenta = "added" 2 in 1 rings in charm.
Note that the blue rings are spiral 2 in 1, while the green rings alternate the side that they're on.
In any case, it's getting further and further away from any standard "half persian".

Narnia's Scaled 2 in 1 chain is the only real Half Persian 2 in 1, because she used cousin interactions to keep the form.



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Joined: March 26, 2002
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Posted on Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:22 am
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Indeed this clears things up and confirms what I knew had to be the case. I put an editor note in the entry for Half Persian 2 in 1 Spine to clear any potential confusion there.


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Posted on Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:56 pm
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Karpeth wrote:
With that colouring, it seems only the Middle parti a inkoherent.

As I structured the Charm Linkage coloring, I view the 2 in 1 spiral (blue) as a central spine and the 2 in 1 rings as alternating sides (connected to every other blue ring, as in constructing a half persian knit).

I think the "incoherent" part is more of looking at a non-repeated viewpoint of the spiral. Half Persian 2 in 1 only completes one full spiral (first blue on left to second-to-last blue). Structurally, it appears to achieve all the correct interactions while looking visually odd.

Come to think of it, since I'm using spiral so much...
Perhaps the closest relative is Half Persian Half Spiral, just with the HP2:1 base instead of HP3:1.

--

Also, is it worth adjusting the tagged images currently in Half Persian 2 in 1 since none of them actually depict the weave?


while(!project.isFinished())
project.addRing();
// Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Eo.n Fper MFe.s Wsm Caws G0.8-1.6 I2.4-8.0 Pn Dcdejst Xw1 S07

Joined: March 26, 2002
Posts: 1923
Submissions: 574
Location: Chainmailland, Chainmailia

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Posted on Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:10 pm
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TrenchCoatGuy wrote:

Also, is it worth adjusting the tagged images currently in Half Persian 2 in 1 since none of them actually depict the weave?


Very likely.


Chainmailbasket.com (2019-01-01) - 376 + 79

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Posted on Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:11 pm
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I de-tagged 2 of the associated gallery images. I’m not sure about the 2others. Is the necklace the same weave? I know the other entry- the one by narrina is certainly not the same, but I’m not sure if there’s another weave in the library similar enough for association. If not it gets tagged with no weaves, or just 2 in 1 Chain, but it seems too far away from the basic chain to be tagged as such. (Or maybe not.) And it certainly wouldn’t make sense to tag every gallery image with any mail in it to 2 in 1 Chain even though they all have it in some capacity.


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Posted on Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:09 pm
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Upon Perusing the Chains, I see no likeness.

Narrinna should be convinced to submit it to the weave queue, as it’s the closest to a ”true” hp2-1 that’s stable I’ve seen.

The necklace seems to me to follow the same Idea, at least.


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Posted on Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:17 pm
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Chainmailbasket_com wrote:
And it certainly wouldn’t make sense to tag every gallery image with any mail in it to 2 in 1 Chain even though they all have it in some capacity.


Better get tagging. Coif Cool Smiley

I keep looking at childofdoom's necklace image with my eyes crossed to try and interpret the telecentric perspective of the scan. It probably is correctly tagged, given that it's the same user. I surely could spend hours trying to follow all the rings, but I stopped after checking a handful -- they look generally correct.

My vote for Narnia's to simply get a 2 in 1 chain tag as well as a scaled tag. I'd say it probably does meet the criteria for being a weave (adds a cousin interaction), so wouldn't mind that option either.


while(!project.isFinished())
project.addRing();
// Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Eo.n Fper MFe.s Wsm Caws G0.8-1.6 I2.4-8.0 Pn Dcdejst Xw1 S07

Joined: March 26, 2002
Posts: 1923
Submissions: 574
Location: Chainmailland, Chainmailia

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Posted on Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:23 am
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TrenchCoatGuy wrote:

My vote for Narnia's to simply get a 2 in 1 chain tag as well as a scaled tag. I'd say it probably does meet the criteria for being a weave (adds a cousin interaction), so wouldn't mind that option either.


I’ll tag it as 2 in 1 Chain. Only thing is, there doesn’t appear to be a “scaled” tag for gallery images.

I also lean towards this being valid as a weave of its own.


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