Half Persian 2 Sheet 4 in 1 (2 of 3): Tubes
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Joined: March 26, 2002
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Location: Chainmailland, Chainmailia

Half Persian 2 Sheet 4 in 1 (2 of 3): Tubes
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Posted on Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:45 pm
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Half Persian 2 in 1 Sheet 4 is a weave with interesting properties regarding expansion and behaviour. The weave naturally curls, and under an approximate AR of 5.0, is forced to curl. This curling, along with the weave's natural composition make it very ideal to form into tubes. At ARs in the low 4s, the weave practically begs to be tubed. The connection is not that difficult to make either since it is only a 4 in 1 weave through and through. One through the eye connection on one side, and one around the eye on the opposite. The rings themselves can be a little tricky to close, especially at low ARs because there isn't a lot of room to work. Good pliers with small tips help with this.

The four-sided version of these is in the weave library as Half Persian 2 in 1 Sheet 4 Box. 8 rows = 4 sides. The name of this weave is based on Box Chain 4 in 1, the 4-sided (and most minimized) tube of European 4 in 1.

"Half Persian 2 Sheet 4 in 1 Tube 4" AR of 4.2


These pics show the first few steps of the method involving sewing up the sheet into a tube.



Other versions of the tube can be made by altering the number of rows (or columns, if you prefer):

Adding more sides yields:

"Half Persian 2 Sheet 4 in 1 Tube 5" AR of 4.3
10 rows = 5 sides


"Half Persian 2 Sheet 4 in 1 Tube 6" AR of 4.3
12 rows = 6 sides


3 sided regression:

A slightly larger AR is required to make the triangular cross section version because of the smaller angles involved. An AR of 4.6 produces a slick chain of ideal flexibility for most general purposes.

"Half Persian 2 Sheet 4 in 1 Tube 3" AR of 4.6
6 rows = 3 sides


This is what the end looks like after sewing up the tube


If the four blue rings are removed, a perfect triplicate end is achieved:


This blows my mind!, but I digress.



If the Half Persian 2 in 1 Sheet 4 strip is sewn up without offsetting each connection, the tube is forced to spiral.

"Half Persian 2 Sheet 4 in 1 Tube 3 (spiral)" AR of 4.6



It is easy enough to expand these chains lengthwise by alternating between through the eye, and around the eye connections with each set of three rings added. The through the eye ring sets flop around. The around the eye set finishes the chain off by pulling the connection toward the center. Strangely, the forced spiral "Tube 3" doesn't have the same nice end as the non-spiral version even though it was made with no offset!
This also blows my mind!, but I digress.



2 sided regression:

It is possible to make the chain with even less sides. An increase in AR is required. Half Persian 2 in 1 Spine has each ring in one of the outside edge rows re-opened and around the eye connected to two rings in the opposite outside edge row. The sample displayed was put together with rings of an AR of 5.4, with room for reduction. This chain, at this AR, only allowed the around the eye connection to be placed in one spot. No offsetting would be allowed, even up to AR of 6.5, although I haven't tried the weave with bigger ARs. This chain, as expected, naturally spirals. I didn't see it in the weave library here, but it appears to be the same as "Ulu 4 in 1 Chain" as found on one of my two favourite weave libraries (the weave library here at m.a.i.l. is my third favourite Smile): CHAINMAILLE WEAVES AND PATTERNS.

"Half Persian 2 Sheet 4 in 1 Tube 2" AR of 5.4





Those involved (all stainless steel):
AR of 4.2:
.063" (1.6mm)
31/128" (6.15mm) mandrel
.266" ID

AR of 4.3:
.048" (1.2mm)
3/16" (4.76mm) mandrel
.207" ID

AR of 4.6:
.048" (1.2mm)
25/128" (4.96mm) mandrel
.219" ID

AR of 5.4:
.048" (1.2mm)
15/64" (5.95mm) mandrel
.261" ID



I'm wondering if the 3, or 5, etc.-sided versions of these have been established already? I assume they would have to have been based on their relative simplicity. I don't tend to check many other sources for mail weaves. Has anyone else seen or made these?


There is no such thing as weave ownership. If someone produces a weave sample, they own that physical piece of mail, but not rights to the weave pattern itself.
Chainmailbasket.com (2019-01-01) - 376 + 79

Joined: October 22, 2010
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Location: Yucaipa, CA

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Posted on Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:17 am
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i think the 3 and 5 sided are new. i really like the 3 sided. that looks really nice.



Joined: March 26, 2002
Posts: 1942
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Location: Chainmailland, Chainmailia

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Posted on Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:17 am
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Yeah, the three-sided is my personal favourite with the four-sided being a close second. I find that after four sides the sides become more obscured and it really becomes more circular.


There is no such thing as weave ownership. If someone produces a weave sample, they own that physical piece of mail, but not rights to the weave pattern itself.
Chainmailbasket.com (2019-01-01) - 376 + 79

Joined: March 26, 2002
Posts: 1942
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Location: Chainmailland, Chainmailia

Better late than never
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Posted on Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:44 am
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After searching for a phrase of the terms “Half Persian 2 in 1”, I stumbled on Tri-Force which is the three-sided version. While the picture for the weave sample is clear, the sample is a nub!

This reminds me of a post that I believe Phong once made saying something like: people, please make weave samples big enough to represent the weave properly. I always thought this too, but I guess I wasn’t very vocal about it


There is no such thing as weave ownership. If someone produces a weave sample, they own that physical piece of mail, but not rights to the weave pattern itself.
Chainmailbasket.com (2019-01-01) - 376 + 79

Joined: October 22, 2010
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Posted on Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:08 pm
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yep, that's it. i'll give this one a try soon.



Joined: August 05, 2010
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Posted on Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:10 pm
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I think there might be a 3D expansion, given how the 4-around tubes look. Likely super difficult to actually weave correctly, since even making the sheet takes a lot of careful observation.


while(!project.isFinished())
project.addRing();
// Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Eo.n Fper MFe.s Wsm Caws G0.8-1.6 I2.4-8.0 Pn Dcdejst Xw1 S07

Joined: March 26, 2002
Posts: 1942
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Location: Chainmailland, Chainmailia

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Posted on Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:30 pm
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TrenchCoatGuy wrote:
I think there might be a 3D expansion, given how the 4-around tubes look. Likely super difficult to actually weave correctly, since even making the sheet takes a lot of careful observation.


I could weave it in my sleep by now. Very Happy

What kind of 3D expansion? The only two I’m familiar with are:

purely symmetrical, as seen in Japanese 4 in 1 Cube, TOT Cube, etc.
And
“Sheet dimensional”, or “stacked sheet”, as in Denser Byzantine Cube, etc.

Or something else that makes it into a no longer expandable geometric sphere, or some such?


There is no such thing as weave ownership. If someone produces a weave sample, they own that physical piece of mail, but not rights to the weave pattern itself.
Chainmailbasket.com (2019-01-01) - 376 + 79

Joined: August 05, 2010
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Location: Bar Harbor, ME, USA

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Posted on Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:59 pm
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This one.
Chainmailbasket_com wrote:
“Sheet dimensional”, or “stacked sheet”, as in Denser Byzantine Cube, etc.



while(!project.isFinished())
project.addRing();
// Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Eo.n Fper MFe.s Wsm Caws G0.8-1.6 I2.4-8.0 Pn Dcdejst Xw1 S07

Joined: October 22, 2010
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Location: Yucaipa, CA

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Posted on Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:01 pm
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made this 6 in 1 version as a progression of tri-force 4 in 1.





Joined: March 26, 2002
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Location: Chainmailland, Chainmailia

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Posted on Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:28 pm
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Awesome! What ring size was used?


There is no such thing as weave ownership. If someone produces a weave sample, they own that physical piece of mail, but not rights to the weave pattern itself.
Chainmailbasket.com (2019-01-01) - 376 + 79

Joined: October 22, 2010
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Location: Yucaipa, CA

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Posted on Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:38 pm
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Chainmailbasket_com wrote:
Awesome! What ring size was used?


18swg 9/32"



Joined: January 24, 2016
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Posted on Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:18 pm
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I think I figured it out. This pattern can become 3D. The trick is that you need a true 3-way corner to the basic Half Persian 3 in 1. I used the idea of making a möbius ball as a corner connection and I figured it out. These are the two variations that I’ve found.




Using this method, almost any möbius ball could be used making an ‘N part connection.’

I’m going to leave the latter statement for investigation late. Right now, I’m going to see if either corner will work in making this weave 3-D.

Edit:They work as corners (tetrahedral). The top one is the outer and the bottom is the inside corner.

Joined: March 26, 2002
Posts: 1942
Submissions: 578
Location: Chainmailland, Chainmailia

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Posted on Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:06 pm
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I have difficulty envisioning how this weave can be dimensionalized. I really like the pictures of the HP3-1 3-way connection though, and appreciate that you submitted them to the gallery. Awhile back I couldn’t easily figure out how to make Universal Web when I was big into webs. This will likely help when I decide to give it another go.


There is no such thing as weave ownership. If someone produces a weave sample, they own that physical piece of mail, but not rights to the weave pattern itself.
Chainmailbasket.com (2019-01-01) - 376 + 79

Joined: March 26, 2002
Posts: 1942
Submissions: 578
Location: Chainmailland, Chainmailia

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Posted on Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:34 pm
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mithrilweaver wrote:
made this 6 in 1 version as a progression of tri-force 4 in 1.



I made one of these too, but it seems I shifted where the initial Half Persian 3 in 1 makes the subsequent European 6 in 1 connection and it threw it into a spiral. It’s very tight at an AR of 6.6 with little flexibility. No picture yet.

A 5 in 1 version, based on Half Persian 3 Sheet 5 in 1 is demonstrated in this article: How to Join Half Persian 3-1 Sheet 5 to Make Square/Trianglemaille.


There is no such thing as weave ownership. If someone produces a weave sample, they own that physical piece of mail, but not rights to the weave pattern itself.
Chainmailbasket.com (2019-01-01) - 376 + 79

Joined: October 22, 2010
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Posted on Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:56 pm
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that 5 in 1 triangular cross section looks nice. does it twist at all?



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