A few more weave AR updates
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Joined: March 26, 2002
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Location: Chainmailland, Chainmailia

A few more weave AR updates
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Posted on Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:53 pm
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Hilt Chain 6 in 1:
Ideal AR set to 6.5 (was previously blank).

0.7 above the minimum provides enough flex for jewelry and other general mailling purposes.



Full Persian - Dense 6 in 1
Ideal AR set to 9.8 (was set to 9.1, which is only slighlty above the minimum, which is still just below 9.0, but not pinpointed).

9.8, although a prohibively high AR for most maillers, alleviates the chain from almost all binding that occurs with this weave (similar to that experienced in Full Persian 6 in 1 Grizzly, which is the midway point between this and proper Full Persian 6 in 1). Use a large enough WD and strong enough material.

The picture shows the weave at AR of 9.0, AR of 9.4, AR of 9.8, top to bottom.



Wyrmscale (Dragonscale 6 in 1)
Ideal AR set to 9.9, 7.4 (was set to 8.0, and 6.0).

I know this is a huge increase, but the original values were based on the listed weave sample ring sizes with 0% ring size increase due to springback. I would be surprised if the weave is even possible at these values. I initially tried to start the weave with 9.1 and 6.6, but it became rather tight and claustrophobic quickly- difficult to establish and hard to see what was going on. It might still work. When further experimentation takes place, I'll build off the established sample I have which is very flexible as far as Dragonscale goes.



Conundrum
Minimum AR set to 3.2, 5.4, 6.3.

This is an excellent chain sheet. Rather than bolt together multiple Helm Chains, I continued the sheet off of one, which is necessary when making the weave tight. The weave is typically crafted of 2 ring sizes, but the truly minimized minimum AR is three. An editor note was appended to the weave entry text to explain this.

Actually, the weave contains 4 ring types, but the small rings that are orbited in each Helm Chain have the same minimum size as the connectors between each Helm Chain.

The orbital rings (bronze in the sample) are intermediate sized.
The layered, horizontal rings (stainless steel), each of which pass though eight small rings, are larger.




Half Persian 2 in 1 Spine
Minimum AR set to 3.8.
Ideal AR set to 4.4 (was 4.6).

This chain which is to Half Persian 2 in 1 Sheet 4/Persian 4 in 1 Sheet like GSG is to Half Persian 3 Sheet 6 in 1 is AR sensitive. It naturally spirals. 4.4 is the ideal AR where the weave flows well. Too much above that and it becomes very loose very quickly. It still has a full range of flexibility down to 4.1, but at 4.2 and lower, it loses stability as when straightening out a piece that has naturally spiralled, some of the rings have to be shifted back into the proper position.



Half Persian 2 in 1 Sheet 4/Persian 4 in 1 Sheet
Ideal AR set to 5.4 (were 6.0, 4.9)

This weave of unusual flexibility and unique characteristics regarding expansion naturally curls. 5.0 - 5.1 is the point around which it will lie flat on a surface. By 5.4, the sheet is somewhat relaxed. 4.2 locks up after a few rows. ARs above 4.2 that still have a forced curl might lock up eventually too.



Half Persian 2 in 1 Sheet 4 Box
Minimum AR set to 4.2
Ideal AR set to 4.3 (was 5.0)

This chain compacts up nicely and still provides a good range of flexibility in AR of 4.3. It's still even usable at its minimum AR!

Also, there are other configurations of this chain. This one is 8 columns with the 8th connecting back onto the first. A 6 column makes a triangular cross section. 10 column makes pentagonal, etc.

I'll eventually submit pictures to the gallery.


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A few more quick ones
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Posted on Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:26 pm
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Johnson Solid Steel Balls:
Minimum AR set to 6.7
Ideal AR set to 6.8 (was at 5.7!)

6.6 is barely too tight- small gap in orbital rings. 6.8 barely allows each of the 9 protruding rings to be doubled. AR-sensitive stuff.

Three Quarters Persian Base 6 Flowers Sheet:
Ideal AR set to 6.5 (was 6.0)

6.0 might work, but 6.5 definitely does, and very well too.


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Posted on Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:00 pm
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Great data, thanks for sharing that. The photos showing various AR's really illustrates the range well.

Are these AR's from actual measurements, or theoretical (mandrel/wire size)?



Joined: March 26, 2002
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Location: Chainmailland, Chainmailia

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Posted on Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:02 am
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Pfeiffer wrote:
Great data, thanks for sharing that. The photos showing various AR's really illustrates the range well.

Are these AR's from actual measurements, or theoretical (mandrel/wire size)?


Thanks!

All AR data I ever present is based on actual measured wire and inner diameters. I have access to over 1000 ring types and for every one of them I have measured data. Any time I use up a batch of a certain wire type and size and replace it, the new rings made are measured. Periodic checks are performed from time to time for verification and the calipers are always close at hand. Coif Cool Smiley

Also, I’ll eventually have pictures of all of these submitted to the gallery, not just the few pictured here. That plus many many more. My backlog is at least a gross at this point, and more weaves keep getting made. One of my goals is to become the weavinest mailler in all of Chainmailia. Very Happy


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Posted on Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:18 pm
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AWESOME! So those AR's, and the weaves you make, are exactly defined and completely reproducible. Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing it! Cutters



Joined: March 26, 2002
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Posted on Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:35 pm
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Paddy's Sheet
Minimum AR set to 5.4
Ideal AR set to 5.8 (was at 5.2)

Another weave AR entry saved from being listed with impossible data. This weave barely works at 5.4. 5.5 might even be a better choice as it would be a comfortable minimum, where the sheet won’t still try to force a curl.

I haven’t tried 5.8 yet, but will soon. Educated guess.


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Posted on Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:32 am
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Hello, as i have not been here in a long time. i would like your help. .please. as i dont kno many of the weaves as of yet.
thus i am asking for your help. .
what is this called. . .

Joined: March 26, 2002
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Posted on Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:46 am
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dumbsaru wrote:
Hello, as i have not been here in a long time. i would like your help. .please. as i dont kno many of the weaves as of yet.
thus i am asking for your help. .
what is this called. . .


That’s a little number we mail artisans refer to as European 4 in 1. Truly one of the oldest weaves, as it came into existence over two thousand years ago. This is a modern application of the weave, with it having been adorned with beads. It’s also hanging the “wrong way” in terms of how the sheet normally hangs in armour applications. There is a hint of graduation on the inner most row achieved via the use of smaller rings. Very attractive design, I must say.


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Posted on Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:48 pm
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Here are some pictures showing both sides of Paddy's Sheet at AR of 5.8. Really nice stuff. I might even like this weave more than Half Persian 3 Sheet 6 in 1!




This is it at AR of 5.4. Not fun to weave at this size.


Cutters Needlenose Pliers


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Posted on Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:53 pm
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Full Persian Sheet Chain is an unusual entry since it doesn’t have a specified constraint. Its ideal AR was set to 5.5, but I upped it to 6.6. 5.6 allows “Five Quarters Persian”, and 5.8 makes “Six Quarters Persian” possible- its nicer than it sounds, with flexibility one way but not the other. I managed 8 Quarters at 6.6. Is this enough quarters to be FP Sheet Chain?


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Posted on Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:56 pm
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Three Quarters Persian x 4
Ideal AR set to 6.0 (was at 7.8 )

I first attempted this thick, luscious rope at an AR of 8.5, which ended up very loose. Loose to the point of being in a very relaxed lie, similar to that experienced with high AR Hilt Chain. Relaxed, and flat to the point where multiple strands could be sewn up into a chain sheet.

My second attempt was going to be at an AR of 6.6, however, something told me to go lower, closer to what is ideal for Full Persian 6 in 1, so I tried 5.6, and ended up with a chain that is very close to the one in the weave entry sample image. The listed ring size must be a misprint.


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Posted on Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:18 pm
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Half Persian 4 in 1 Sheet 8
Ideal AR set to 9.1 (was at 8.0)

I’ve long avoided bothering to even try the directional sheeting of a balanced Half Persian chain weave because I didn’t think it would work effectively since the individual “strands” involved have no concavity. I figured the only reason the one depicted in sample image for the weave worked was because it’s only two chain widths. As it turns out, the weave works very well.

I weaved a piece at AR of 9.1 and it is quite nice. I’m unsure as to whether or not the weave would be continually expandable at the 8.0 it was previously set to. My guess is no.


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Posted on Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:11 pm
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Just a question:

Apart from this thread, should there be another method of logging or noting these adjustments to AR values?

Maybe I look at stuff or overthink... but it somewhat strikes me as odd that when you look at a weave such as the recently edited Three Quarters Persian x 4, you see the description includes a ring size that doesn't match the recommended AR.

It's likely that CMB is sending a gallery image (and that works well for infrequently made weaves), but is there a method to make these recommendations a bit more clear? Seems like someone might go through this a decade later and wonder why the only ring info doesn't match the description and change it back (thinking it was a typo).


while(!project.isFinished())
project.addRing();
// Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Eo.n Fper MFe.s Wsm Caws G0.8-1.6 I2.4-8.0 Pn Dcdejst Xw1 S07

Joined: March 26, 2002
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Location: Chainmailland, Chainmailia

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Posted on Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:32 pm
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That is an excellent question.

I’m not sure the best way to go about it. I could append an editor note for these few cases. Or there could be another tag added to each weave - “AR verified”. Jackalgirl brought this up awhile ago as a suggestion.

I wonder if something could be incorporated into 3.0, whenever that may come to pass.

Either way though, we should do something regarding this.


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