Weave Characteristics Definitions Help
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Weave Characteristics Definitions Help
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Posted on Wed May 16, 2018 1:06 pm
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In the Knitting Circle it was brought up that the definitions for Orbital Ring and Captive Ring were inconsistent. See discussion here.

We would like to get your opinion on if the definitions below are understandable by the community and we would like your input on if/how we can make a CLEAR and SIMPLE definition that everyone can understand, if the below definitions are not understandable.

Proposed Definitions:
Orbital Ring: A ring whose sole structural interaction is held in place by planet ring(s) which the orbital ring passes around while never passing through.
Example:Orbital

Captive Ring: A ring whose sole structural interaction is held in place by either cage ring(s), that the captive ring neither pass around nor through, or sandwich rings, which involve both an orbital interaction as well as one or more captive interactions.
Example of Cage:Captive Inverted Round
Example of Sandwich: Helm

Symbiont Rings: where the captive/orbital behavior involves the interaction of two (or more) independent weaves.
Example:Interlock


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Re: Weave Characteristics Definitions Help
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Posted on Wed May 16, 2018 2:04 pm
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MusicMan wrote:
In the Knitting Circle it was brought up that the definitions for Orbital Ring and Captive Ring were inconsistent. See discussion here.

We would like to get your opinion on if the definitions below are understandable by the community and we would like your input on if/how we can make a CLEAR and SIMPLE definition that everyone can understand, if the below definitions are not understandable.

Proposed Definitions:
Orbital Ring: A ring whose sole structural interaction is held in place by planet ring(s) which the orbital ring passes around while never passing through.
Example:Orbital

Captive Ring: A ring whose sole structural interaction is held in place by either cage ring(s), that the captive ring neither pass around nor through, or sandwich rings, which involve both an orbital interaction as well as one or more captive interactions.
Example of Cage:Captive Inverted Round
Example of Sandwich: Helm

Symbiont Rings: where the captive/orbital behavior involves the interaction of two (or more) independent weaves.
Example:Interlock

I would prefer:

Orbital:
Where a ring, or ringlike ring substitution (eg möbius) is Held in place in a weave, by resting outside other ring elements, being Held in place by only weave elements, not otherwise connected to it.

Captive:
Where a ring (...) is Held in place in a weave, by resting inside other ring elements, being Held in place by only weave elements, not otherwise connected to it.

Symbiont:
Where rings interact such that rings are forced into positions by using connections that would be deemed orbital or captive, but where the o/c ring utilizes classical connections as Well


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Posted on Wed May 16, 2018 3:15 pm
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Thank you for your input. As I mentioned in the Knitting Circle thread there is only 1 or 2 words difference between your definitions. I believe that because of that factor it would be more confusing for people.

But I will let the community be the judge.


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Posted on Thu May 17, 2018 3:18 pm
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MusicMan wrote:
Thank you for your input. As I mentioned in the Knitting Circle thread there is only 1 or 2 words difference between your definitions. I believe that because of that factor it would be more confusing for people.

But I will let the community be the judge.


It’s one Word, and it’s to Highlight the similarity.
Inside or Outside. Captive or Orbital.

With My definition, Helm would be Both captive and Orbital, but not symbiont.


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Posted on Thu May 17, 2018 5:18 pm
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If “planet ring(s)” is used in a definition, then it would have to be separately defined.


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Posted on Thu May 17, 2018 9:09 pm
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Chainmailbasket_com wrote:
If “planet ring(s)” is used in a definition, then it would have to be separately defined.


The same with cage rings.


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Posted on Thu May 17, 2018 9:47 pm
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Chainmailbasket_com wrote:
If “planet ring(s)” is used in a definition, then it would have to be separately defined.

MusicMan wrote:
A ring whose sole structural interaction is held in place by planet ring(s) which the orbital ring passes around while never passing through.

When I read that, I make the connection that planet rings refer to the ring(s) that the orbital ring passes around.

Unless, of course, this was referring to the lack of an entry for "planet rings" in the glossary. I agree with the notion that it should be added.
Orbital, Captive, Cage each have their own glossary entry.


while(!project.isFinished())
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Posted on Sat May 19, 2018 10:20 pm
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Chainmailbasket_com wrote:
If “planet ring(s)” is used in a definition, then it would have to be separately defined.


Agreed! What should it's definition be? If people like the term that is.


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Posted on Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:46 pm
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Chainmailbasket_com wrote:
If “planet ring(s)” is used in a definition, then it would have to be separately defined.


Planet rings - a grouping of rings that hold an orbital ring in place without being directly connected to that orbital ring.


This is my first shot at defining Planet rings. Thoughts?


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Posted on Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:19 pm
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This seems clunky to me so I'll keep thinking about it, but here's my first go:

"Orbital ring: a closed, unconnected ring passing over/around the narrow part of the linkage of two (or more) woven rings, and which is trapped in place by the linking rings’ outer diameters.

"Captive ring: a closed, unconnected ring secured within a weave by means of being inside a framework of woven rings."

When you start talking planet rings, I think of planetary gearing systems and get all confused. But that's no reason not to talk planet rings, mind you: I'm a weirdo.

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Posted on Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:51 am
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I like Karpeth's definitions for orbital and captive.

With the term "planet ring", I expect the orbital to be around the center of a ring like in Helm, and not around an eye like in Orbital.

I suggest:
Symbiont: Two (or more) independent weaves liked together solely by orbital/captive interactions.

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Posted on Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:43 pm
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Jackalgirl wrote:
This seems clunky to me so I'll keep thinking about it, but here's my first go:

"Orbital ring: a closed, unconnected ring passing over/around the narrow part of the linkage of two (or more) woven rings, and which is trapped in place by the linking rings’ outer diameters.



I see now that this doesn't work (see Helm Chain), thanks, MusicMan, since orbital rings aren't always positioned around linkages...hm.

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Posted on Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:37 pm
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Shirluban wrote:
I like Karpeth's definitions for orbital and captive.

With the term "planet ring", I expect the orbital to be around the center of a ring like in Helm, and not around an eye like in Orbital.

I suggest:
Symbiont: Two (or more) independent weaves liked together solely by orbital/captive interactions.


Thanks!

(My definition of symbiont might have been a bit clumsy, but we have to decide; is Definitely Not Beer symbiont or not? It uses orbital interactions, but the rings are not true orbital.)

Jackalgirl; that’s Why i like My definition, it does away with the ”typical” Idea, to encompass all ”true” cases.


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Posted on Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:23 pm
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Karpeth wrote:

Jackalgirl; that’s Why i like My definition, it does away with the ”typical” Idea, to encompass all ”true” cases.


The more I think about it, the more I'm on board with you. Mind you, I'm a rank and utter newbie, but it seems to me that the defining characteristic of orbital vs. captive is the outside/inside distinction.

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Posted on Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:26 pm
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Karpeth wrote:
(My definition of symbiont might have been a bit clumsy, but we have to decide; is Definitely Not Beer symbiont or not? It uses orbital interactions, but the rings are not true orbital.)


Definitely Not Beer does not to meet the proposed symbiont criteria.

Jackalgirl wrote:
When you start talking planet rings, I think of planetary gearing systems and get all confused. But that's no reason not to talk planet rings, mind you: I'm a weirdo.


Yeah. Planetary gear systems use the sun-planet terminology (where the planets orbit the sun). This uses the planet-satellite terminology (where the satellite orbits the planet). I couldn't think of another better set of terms, since these were pulled from astronomy terms (starting with the well accepted "orbit"). Satellite fits the proper definition, but planet could be re-termed to less elegant terms like "central body" or "inner mass".

Shirluban wrote:
With the term "planet ring", I expect the orbital to be around the center of a ring like in [weave=Helm], and not around an eye like in Orbital.


Maybe it helps if the "planet" could refer to multiple rings? Perhaps we should call the sum of all rings the orbital ring passes around as the planet.


while(!project.isFinished())
project.addRing();
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