Weave Study -- First Quarter 2018
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Joined: August 05, 2010
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Weave Study -- First Quarter 2018
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Posted on Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:03 pm
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Weave Study Threads
Purpose:
Go more in depth to specific weaves as a community.
Add information to weaves, including:
    Tutorials
    AR limits
    Related Weaves
    Pattern Information


The next 3 month (January 1 to March 31) we will be/are/were studying:
Magus Weave
Hoodoo/Voodoo
Interwoven 4 in 1 Dragonscale

Additional Links:
Link to interest/discussion thread


while(!project.isFinished())
project.addRing();
// Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Eo.n Fper MFe.s Wsm Caws G0.8-1.6 I2.4-8.0 Pn Dcdejst Xw1 S07

Joined: March 26, 2002
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Location: Chainmailland, Chainmailia

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Posted on Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:46 pm
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I wish that Hoodoo Sheet was called Hoodoo, and that what is called Hoodoo was called Hoodoo Chain.


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Posted on Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:48 pm
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Wow I haven't even thought of the Magus Weave for years. I hope everyone has fun experimenting with it.


"When life itself seems lunatic, who knows where madness lies? Perhaps to be too practical is madness, to surrender dreams, too much sanity may be madness. And maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be."

Joined: March 26, 2002
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Location: Chainmailland, Chainmailia

Voodoo AR considerations
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Posted on Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:08 pm
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Voodoo is a weave I’ve worked with a few times. I used it for the castle floor in .062” 3/16”, and 5/16” (AR of 3.3, AR of 5.5). A very slightly lower combination was utilized in a set of chess rooks for their lower portion in AR of 3.2, and AR of 5.4. I wanted to use the weave for basket sides back in the day, but only tried a few AR combos, sometimes with different wire diameters between the large and small rings. Nothing gave me the flexibility I was after so I put the idea aside.

I decided to AR-refine the weave a bit. I haven’t gotten that far yet but I’ll share what I have so far:

Using the same WD for both ring types, the small ring in Voodoo can have an AR of 2.7 and still work. In order to weave it with the ring this small I had to complete each four ring Mobius with only one of the small rings encircling the connection point. Then I would add the other two rings after. These rings- especially the last were not easy to close.

I tried an AR of 2.5 but it doesn’t work at all. With an AR of 2.6, I managed to get one small ring around the Mobius 4-piece, but even it had to be added after the Mobius was fully established. I’m still working away at it. Incidentally the large rings used for this have an AR of 5.3.

Interestingly enough the 2.7/5.3 version has similar flexibility to one that is 3.3/5.3.

Voodoo Hexagonal can accept a smaller small ring because these only go around 3-ring Mobiuses vs. 4 seen in Voodoo. I’ve found that an AR of 2.4 works for the small rings (using AR of 5.0 for the large rings). AR of 2.2 is right out. I plan on trying 2.3 soon. I even busted out my 3.25mm mandrel for the first time ever to produce these ROUS’s.

I also realize, having worked with weaves that use multiple sizes that there could be multiple possible minimum AR combinations.

More information to come and pictures too. There. Now I have to. Very Happy


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Re: Voodoo AR considerations
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Posted on Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:07 am
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Chainmailbasket_com wrote:
Interestingly enough the 2.7/5.3 version has similar flexibility to one that is 3.3/5.3.

I wonder if this has more to do with the structure and how the larger ring may be the item restricting the flexibility rather than the small ring in these instances.


while(!project.isFinished())
project.addRing();
// Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Eo.n Fper MFe.s Wsm Caws G0.8-1.6 I2.4-8.0 Pn Dcdejst Xw1 S07

Joined: March 26, 2002
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Location: Chainmailland, Chainmailia

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Posted on Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:42 am || Last edited by Chainmailbasket_com on Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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I was going to wait and post once I had pics, but to be honest, the AR-refined version doesn’t look all that different. The Hex version is a little bit neater.

An AR of 2.6 no longer worked with AR of 5.3 large rings. It did however work with larger rings. I used way larger rings out of curiosity- 1/2” AR of 9.0, but it just collapsed. I tried AR of 2.7 with a large ring AR of 5.0 but it locked up very quickly. Very AR-specific stuff.

Voodoo Hex didn’t work with a small ring AR of 2.3. I managed to get the large ring down to AR of 4.5, keeping the small one at AR of 2.4 and produced a very nice little still fluid sample which will replace a sloppier version in my main collection. There might be a bit more room for large ring reduction, but not much, and bunching would likely occur.

My recommendation is use at least AR of 2.8 for the small ring in Voodoo, and AR of 2.5 for Voodoo Hexagonal for ease of weaving.


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Re: Voodoo AR considerations
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Posted on Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:43 am
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TrenchCoatGuy wrote:
Chainmailbasket_com wrote:
Interestingly enough the 2.7/5.3 version has similar flexibility to one that is 3.3/5.3.

I wonder if this has more to do with the structure and how the larger ring may be the item restricting the flexibility rather than the small ring in these instances.


Yes.


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Posted on Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:22 pm
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I started on Interwoven 4 in 1 Dragonscale.
I keep thinking that it looks oddly like Elfsheet.
Lo and behold, when I made it, it is extremely similar. It's as if the horizontal rings are shifted just a bit.

In an attempt to convey this information...
Link to comparisons
The blue ring is the "horizontal" ring. I should have been more careful with the coloring of rings, but essentially removing one of the other colored rings and adding the unlinked one (specifically the ones mentioned in the image caption) you can convert between the two.

There are essentially 3 possible interactions that this horizontal ring can join with. May have to do a bit more digging and/or testing, but I don't seem to recall there being a weave that interacts with all 3 (making it a 6in1 weave).


while(!project.isFinished())
project.addRing();
// Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Eo.n Fper MFe.s Wsm Caws G0.8-1.6 I2.4-8.0 Pn Dcdejst Xw1 S07

Joined: March 26, 2002
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Voodoo, AR-refined
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Posted on Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:18 pm
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AR-refined Voodoo and Voodoo Hex:

2.7, 5.3


2.4, 4.5



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Posted on Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:14 am
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I did end up making Magus Weave with one WD. I'm not quite happy with the sample just yet, because the smaller of the rings allows for too much floppiness that probably made weaving it more difficult than intended.

Rings used (but not recommended):
Wire 0.035" aluminum
11/64" mandrel (closed AR of 5.2)
7/64" mandrel (closed AR of 3.1)

Using Japanese Weaves: Minimum AR Considerations, I'd probably recommend an AR of 2.4 or closer for the smaller ring, since it is linked to 3 other rings (note: minimum is AR of 2.2, but the rings aren't quite arranged in the optimal packing for 3).


while(!project.isFinished())
project.addRing();
// Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Eo.n Fper MFe.s Wsm Caws G0.8-1.6 I2.4-8.0 Pn Dcdejst Xw1 S07

Joined: March 26, 2002
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Location: Chainmailland, Chainmailia

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Posted on Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:13 am
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Despite what the weave entry’s description claims, I find that it is physically impossible to weave Hoodoo Chain below an AR of 3.0. I’m not the only one to have encountered this.

Using rings of .062” bright aluminum wound on a 11/64” mandrel, measured ID of .188” makes a stiff stick of it.

P.S. this is not an April fools joke.


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Posted on Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:01 am
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Chainmailbasket_com wrote:
Despite what the weave entry’s description claims, I find that it is physically impossible to weave Hoodoo Chain below an AR of 3.0. I’m not the only one to have encountered this.

Using rings of .062” bright aluminum wound on a 11/64” mandrel, measured ID of .188” makes a stiff stick of it.

P.S. this is not an April fools joke.


I agree.

I recently made a silver hoodoo chain. Ar 3.0; extremely stiff and sometimes almost impossible to add a new ring.


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Posted on Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:59 am
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Thank you, Karpeth.

Does anyone have a good AR recommendation that would be ideal for something like a bracelet? I know it won’t be very much above 3. And I know 4.0 makes the chain rather disgusting (although ok for the Sheet version).


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Posted on Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:29 pm
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Chainmailbasket_com wrote:
Thank you, Karpeth.

Does anyone have a good AR recommendation that would be ideal for something like a bracelet? I know it won’t be very much above 3. And I know 4.0 makes the chain rather disgusting (although ok for the Sheet version).


I believe it’s very close to 3.0.

The chain (a bracelet) serves it purpouse. The rings were measured to be Exactly 3.0, but putting small force vectors on it made it bendable enough for a bracelet. Still quite stiff. No noticable change in closures, though.


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Hoodoo Operator
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Posted on Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:31 pm
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Karpeth wrote:
The chain (a bracelet) serves it purpouse. The rings were measured to be Exactly 3.0, but putting small force vectors on it made it bendable enough for a bracelet. Still quite stiff. No noticable change in closures, though.


That's interesting, I guess it has do to with the maille "setting". I haven't experienced this much, but I recall someone once saying they sent a slightly too tight JPL through a tumbler which gave it just the right amount of motivation to flex enough for a bracelet.


To be honest, I never thought much of Hoodoo Chain. I figured I'd get around to the sheet one day, but since I already had Voodoo at my disposal, it wasn't exactly a priority. But I must say I was somewhat enthralled by the chain since my first attempt was solid, but when I increased the AR only by 0.1, I already had mucho flex. I already knew before assembly it would be AR sensitive, but wow.

0.062" (1.57mm) bright aluminum
11/64" (4.37mm) mandrel 0.188" (4.78mm) ID AR of 3.0, then
23/128" (4.56mm) mandrel 0.193" (4.90mm) ID AR of 3.1



Unbelievable. I put a copper ring in there to know where the AR change took place, but in hindsight, it hardly seems as though it was necessary.

It stays hard for awhile, then it just goes completely limp. Surprised

Moving up to .078" (1.98mm) wire, since I have no 3.2 in .062" aluminum, I made these three samples:

7/32" (5.56mm) mandrel 0.239" (6.07mm) ID AR of 3.1
29/128" (5.75mm) mandrel 0.249" (6.32mm) ID AR of 3.2
15/64" (5.95mm) mandrel 0.257" (6.53mm) ID AR of 3.3



Starting at about 3.3, the weaves behaviour changes. It tries to invert itself sideways, making the ideal AR in my opinion 3.1 or 3.2.

Ever since I saw it in the weave library, I simply had to make a Compass Rose, although I always found the images strangely suspicious. I mean, how secure do those central captive rings look to everyone else?

Nevertheless, I tried it with listed ring sizes from the weave's sample picture, I fought for awhile trying to close up the Hoodoo Chain with that pair of .100 7/16" blue AA rings in there, dislodging themselves several times, and I just COULD NOT get it. So I opted for a ring with a similar OD but in smaller, .080" WD. Still couldn't do it. Dropping down a ring size still wouldn't work, then a smaller one still. Finally I got it together but the captives fell out like nothing. So then I found myself trying to insert the .100" 7/16" blue AA and they snapped in! Yay maille elasticity.

Very finnicky, and unfortunately not completely stable from my experience. Hoodoo chain is like a minimum security prison one might say.

Hoodoo Chain rings are .062" (1.57mm) 3/16" (4.76mm) mandrel, 0.205" (5.21mm) ID, AR of 3.3.



I also noticed this weave entry is not tagged as Captive. Was that an oversight?


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