Byzantine Web Triangle
View previous topic | View next topic >
Post new topic Reply to topic
M.A.I.L. Forum Index -> Weaves Discussion
   
Author Message

Joined: October 22, 2010
Posts: 691
Submissions: 390
Location: Yucaipa, CA

Byzantine Web Triangle
Reply with quote
Posted on Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:57 am
Link to Post: Link to Post

Byzantine Web Triangle. i submitted this weave about 1 year ago and now suddenly it's been accepted under "antiquity." from 2018. suspicious! i have no idea what happened to my submission. now it's been deleted (not even in the gallery). it's no longer even showing up on my mail page. can someone explain what happened please?



Joined: October 22, 2010
Posts: 691
Submissions: 390
Location: Yucaipa, CA

Reply with quote
Posted on Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:19 am
Link to Post: Link to Post





Joined: October 22, 2010
Posts: 691
Submissions: 390
Location: Yucaipa, CA

Reply with quote
Posted on Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:26 am
Link to Post: Link to Post





Joined: October 22, 2010
Posts: 691
Submissions: 390
Location: Yucaipa, CA

Reply with quote
Posted on Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:34 am
Link to Post: Link to Post

the copper one i made many years ago is in the gallery under the new accepted weave.



Joined: October 22, 2010
Posts: 691
Submissions: 390
Location: Yucaipa, CA

Reply with quote
Posted on Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:35 am
Link to Post: Link to Post

http://www.mailleartisans.org/gallery/gallerydisplay.php?key=6480



Joined: March 26, 2002
Posts: 1895
Submissions: 574
Location: Chainmailland, Chainmailia

Reply with quote
Posted on Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:27 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

Check your private messages.


Chainmailbasket.com (2019-01-01) - 376 + 79

Joined: August 30, 2008
Posts: 3064
Submissions: 20
Location: Burlington, ON, Canada

Re: Byzantine Web Triangle
Reply with quote
Posted on Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:00 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

mithrilweaver wrote:
Byzantine Web Triangle. i submitted this weave about 1 year ago and now suddenly it's been accepted under "antiquity." from 2018. suspicious! i have no idea what happened to my submission. now it's been deleted (not even in the gallery). it's no longer even showing up on my mail page. can someone explain what happened please?


Nothing suspicious about it. Literally everything that happens on the site is above board and store in the News Feed accessible from the main page.

August 18th, 2019 wrote:

Chainmailbasket_com declined weave: Byzantine Triangle Sheet, but moved it to the Gallery Queue. 7:09 PM
Chainmailbasket_com approved weave: Byzantine Web Triangle. 6:58 PM


Your duplicate submission is now in the Gallery Queue, awaiting approval and tagging.

If you'd like me to go back to the submission dates of both weaves and show you which one entered the queue first (Hint: It's the one that was accepted) I can do that as well.

---

In fairness, I pretty much fell off the face of MAIL (and literally almost entirely out of the hobby) because I was sick of the drama, and thinly veiled public attempts to make the Admins here look like horrible people...
I'm super glad to see things around here have improved in my absence, it really gives me the warm fuzzies and makes me want to stay.



Joined: October 22, 2010
Posts: 691
Submissions: 390
Location: Yucaipa, CA

Reply with quote
Posted on Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:59 am
Link to Post: Link to Post

i've been in touch with david through pm about this and he has helped me to understand what happened. i think you guys are awesome people for putting in everything that you do for the chainmaille community.

there are a few small things that can change to help insure people feel positive in their experiences here. 1) make sure people are getting credit for weaves. if the weave rules change and suddenly a weave will be accepted when previously it was not, then the original gallery submitter should at least get their name on the description of the new weave being accepted. it turns out, in this case, it was not me and i am fine with that. 2) communicate. david forgot to message me about this weave mix up and so the first thing i saw was a weave being accepted that i had submitted 1 year ago. that was upsetting. david has already apologized for that. i think he's doing a great job as an admin and i know everyone makes mistakes sometimes.



Joined: October 22, 2010
Posts: 691
Submissions: 390
Location: Yucaipa, CA

Reply with quote
Posted on Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:09 am
Link to Post: Link to Post

3) a weave admin should not be able to approve their own weaves. the weaves should go to another admin for approval. the suspicious part was that when the weave got accepted, it was by an admin but under a different name. from the outside, that looked like it was being hidden. and when david told be that he had submitted the weave 1 month before me, it seemed convenient. now, i know that is the truth and everything is fine. when an admin has the power to accept their own weaves, the only thing i can do is trust that things are being run properly. when the evidence pointed toward something shady, there is a potential to loose members. that's what i want to avoid.



Joined: March 26, 2002
Posts: 1895
Submissions: 574
Location: Chainmailland, Chainmailia

Reply with quote
Posted on Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:20 am
Link to Post: Link to Post

The issue here was communication. I messed up and am working to resolve this, and hopefully a few other things.


Chainmailbasket.com (2019-01-01) - 376 + 79

Joined: August 30, 2008
Posts: 3064
Submissions: 20
Location: Burlington, ON, Canada

Reply with quote
Posted on Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:19 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

mithrilweaver wrote:
3) a weave admin should not be able to approve their own weaves. the weaves should go to another admin for approval. the suspicious part was that when the weave got accepted, it was by an admin but under a different name. from the outside, that looked like it was being hidden. and when david told be that he had submitted the weave 1 month before me, it seemed convenient. now, i know that is the truth and everything is fine. when an admin has the power to accept their own weaves, the only thing i can do is trust that things are being run properly. when the evidence pointed toward something shady, there is a potential to loose members. that's what i want to avoid.



To put this fear to rest, hopefully.

Nothing shady is capable of happening on MAIL.
Literally EVERY Admin action is logged. The important ones (Submissions, Edits and Deletes, Approvals, Denials, And Moves to the Gallery) are publicly viewable and thus all admin actions are auditable. There is 100% transparency. I designed 3.0 this way intentionally, as there were several bad actors at the time making accusations of favourability and unscrupulous behaviour.

The more minor ones (AR info changes, weave and gallery and article tags, etc) are logged server side and auditable on demand.

Admins are accountable, both to each other, and the membership at general. This is part of what MAIL has always been, and will always be.



Joined: October 22, 2010
Posts: 691
Submissions: 390
Location: Yucaipa, CA

Reply with quote
Posted on Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:53 am
Link to Post: Link to Post

Daemon_Lotos wrote:
To put this fear to rest, hopefully.

Nothing shady is capable of happening on MAIL.
Literally EVERY Admin action is logged. The important ones (Submissions, Edits and Deletes, Approvals, Denials, And Moves to the Gallery) are publicly viewable and thus all admin actions are auditable. There is 100% transparency. I designed 3.0 this way intentionally, as there were several bad actors at the time making accusations of favourability and unscrupulous behaviour.

The more minor ones (AR info changes, weave and gallery and article tags, etc) are logged server side and auditable on demand.

Admins are accountable, both to each other, and the membership at general. This is part of what MAIL has always been, and will always be.


you've addressed transparency, accountability, and the overall function of the website. i appreciate that. you have not addressed my main concerns which are more ethical: conflict of interest and inballance of power.



Joined: August 30, 2008
Posts: 3064
Submissions: 20
Location: Burlington, ON, Canada

Reply with quote
Posted on Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:57 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

mithrilweaver wrote:
Daemon_Lotos wrote:
To put this fear to rest, hopefully.

Nothing shady is capable of happening on MAIL.
Literally EVERY Admin action is logged. The important ones (Submissions, Edits and Deletes, Approvals, Denials, And Moves to the Gallery) are publicly viewable and thus all admin actions are auditable. There is 100% transparency. I designed 3.0 this way intentionally, as there were several bad actors at the time making accusations of favourability and unscrupulous behaviour.

The more minor ones (AR info changes, weave and gallery and article tags, etc) are logged server side and auditable on demand.

Admins are accountable, both to each other, and the membership at general. This is part of what MAIL has always been, and will always be.


you've addressed transparency, accountability, and the overall function of the website. i appreciate that. you have not addressed my main concerns which are more ethical: conflict of interest and inballance of power.


That’s mainly because where you see “power”, I see “responsibility”.
I won’t deny that in the past there has been a Weave Admin who has wielded their position as one of power. But that is not the default state, nor any longer the case.
Discussions are had on each submission, by far more than the weave admin. Lorraine, how she is missed, used to be a solid voice on these. MusicMan contributes heavily as well, as do other Admins.
Approval or Denial is based on the weave submission criteria, often with discussion between several Admins. With a Weave Admin tasked with clicking the actual “approve” button, and doing the heavy lifting of tagging and ensuring the submission is formatted correctly, etc.
No Weave Admin in the last, what, 5+ years? Has acted as “sole and final arbiter” unless the submission was either an obvious yay or nay immediately. And never on their own submissions.

All that being said, accountability and transparency negates almost any potential for abuse, or conflict of interest, as everything is open and on the table. Working in Board Directed Not-For-Profit corporations in the real world has taught me much in this regard.

Now, if you believe that a single person holding the position of Weave Admin cannot fulfill their fiduciary duty, that’s a whole other conversation, well outside of the scope of this topic thread.



Joined: October 22, 2010
Posts: 691
Submissions: 390
Location: Yucaipa, CA

Reply with quote
Posted on Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:02 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

great! this helps me to see the inner workings with more checks and balances.



Post new topic Reply to topic
Jump to:  
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT. The time now is Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:00 pm
M.A.I.L. Forum Index -> Weaves Discussion
Display posts from previous: