Newb here with questions about sleeves
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Joined: July 5, 2017
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Newb here with questions about sleeves
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Posted on Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:05 am
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Hello! I'm new to making mail (working on my Halloween costume to be a Viking this year). I'm curious as to how to go about making my sleeves for my tunic. I'll want them short (it's hot down here in FL). Needing to add them to a tank style tunic. Any suggestions will be much appreciated. I'm learned in 4-1 and have been using nothing but machine cut split rings. I'd post a photo of my progress but don't know how

Joined: June 19, 2013
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Posted on Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:22 am
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Welcome! Why not use jump rings? They are cheaper than split rings. Although you may have the terms mixed up and are already using jump rings.

You have to upload your image to your website or an image hosting website. Then you can embed it here using the link.



Joined: October 22, 2010
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Posted on Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:51 am
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there has been debate before about whether it's better to have sleeves lay open or closed (the lay direction of the e4). i think, traditionally, the sleeves are open. but that's for long sleeves. the argument is that the sleeves are easier to move in when the weave is open. the hardest part is the arm pits. many attempts have been made, but i've not seen a good arm pit design. i've never made sleeves myself, so i don't know for sure how to do it, but i have some ideas. the best idea i can think of for the arm pits is to make an e4 expanding circle for each. then, expand the e4 pattern as needed with seams opening and closing where needed. the great thing about the e4 expanding circle is that you can contour the e4 weave to fit any custom curve. after the e4 expanding circle, i would say the best design is chainmaille basket's triangular seam design. both articles are below.

http://www.mailleartisans.org/articles/articledisplay.php?key=668
http://www.mailleartisans.org/articles/articledisplay.php?key=30



Joined: March 27, 2002
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Posted on Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:57 am
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Zlosk has archived one of the best sleeve tutes, onsite here someplace. I hope it is to be found in the Articles in the Library section.

The sole difficulty in attaching sleeves to a conventionally built mailshirt is closing up the last few inches in the armpits. This calls for learning how to do the 90 degree join. Basically that is alternating weaving from a link through four links already there, two each edge of the opening, then weaving the next zip-up link into only three links, two one side and just one the other, and continue for the needed inches of closure alternating weave-through-four and weave-through-three.

This closing-up should be pretty high in the armpit, to allow easy raising of your arm overhead or nearly so.

The rest of a conventional mailshirt sleeve (also it's the historical Viking shirt AFAWK -- in fact, everyone's historical shirt except for Japan -- they really went their own way) is just a continuation of the shirt body's linkrows across chest and back, all the way to the connection atop the shoulders. The links go straight out, untroubled, and hang down with your arms, any sleeve length you choose. Vikings wore 'em short.

The sleeve gets closed up with more mail to bridge inside the biceps between what we might call the front of the sleeve and the back of the sleeve. Filled in well up to the armpit, you've got the linkrows meeting each other perpendicularly, that 90 degrees I mentioned. You can fill in pretty determinedly but you would still have to close up some 90 degree join regardless.

Open-hang sleeves are the best setup for doing long sleeves, because of what the elbows do. They don't run into problems by stopping short of the elbows, that's for sure. Closed-hang sleeves are okay down to the elbow joint. They are more of a nuisance to put an elbow-bay into because of the way the linkrows run -- you have to do row expansions, and these can be rather untidy. They are also most seamlessly done using a mantle-top shoulder section to the shirt, like the cowl of a mail coif, or the construction of a bishop's-mantle. Full of expansions or expansion zones arrayed about.

Your sleeves will have the best ease to swing your arms forward and across if you make sure there is more width of mail across your upper back than across your chest; front and back halves are rather unequal. Your arms go much farther forward than they go back; your shirt needs to accomodate this. It doesn't need to equally accommodate as much of an arm swing backwards. As you suppose, a completely sleeveless mail byrnie, a short and vestlike shirt covering just your vitals, may ignore this.


'The Minstrel Boy to the War is gone...'

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Posted on Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:15 pm
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JanPieter, you are correct in my mixup of terminology, I am using jump rings, stainless steel.

I don't need to close the armpit, leaving it open is fine by me.

At this point I suppose it's best I just weave myself a decent size square and work with it from there.

Thanks for the input everyone.

Joined: March 10, 2015
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Posted on Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:37 pm
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Can you use imgur.com to host some photos of your current tank style tunic, with some closeups of the current armhole?

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Posted on Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:51 am
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Square, yes. Then turn it into a rectangle, its length laid on its side, that length long enough to go all the way around you. You can insert triangular expansion arrays to help tailor this byrnie to your body -- all the more so if you are broad in the shoulders and with good pecs.

If you think in terms of horizontally wrapping around you, rather than vertically up and over your shoulders, you will have almost no problems getting linkrows misaligned, which is a bother to new mailshirt makers

Step 1 is that square you start with
Step 2 is making it into a rectangle, perhaps with some expansion related to the upper edge.
Step 3 is making a shoulder section; either two shoulder straps or just another rectangle with a neck hole included, set somewhat forward of being centered on a port-to-starboard centerline of the shoulder section. Expansion arrays may be fitted into this rectangle to match any expansion arrays in your body barrel. Zip barrel and shoulder together. Back of mailshirt will still be a few inches wider than front of mailshirt: 3-4" more.
Step 4 is don't make it exactly nut length; above your groin or below it. Your tenderer parts will thank you! Mail hems will slap as you walk.


'The Minstrel Boy to the War is gone...'

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Hoping this works :-/
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Posted on Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:02 am
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I'll try to get some close ups after I get back from vacation. But this should give you an idea. I just want the sleeves to drape my shoulder, I'd rather they not be closed. Trying to keep it as lightweight as I can, it's already getting heavy lol.

https://imgur.com/gallery/6SjIS

Joined: March 27, 2002
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Posted on Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:52 am
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If you really do want lighter weight, make your shirt out of 18ga (.048") and rivet the links. Laughing -- but seriously, that's how. It has to be thinnish steel, because aluminum, though light, fatigues too badly to cooperate with riveting. Try and pierce a rivet hole in the stuff and it cracks. Boring a hole takes too much metal away from right where a link needs it the most. Terrible.

For stainless wire, welding is the preferred method, which takes more equipment than you're going for; stainless isn't cooperative about riveting because you can't anneal it soft enough.

I regret to say part of your difficulty with a hot outfit is that most of it is a leather tunic. So no wonder. Something that completely is a mail shirt lets the wind whistle right through the mesh. Then the only thing keeping you warm is a thickish garment underneath the mail.


'The Minstrel Boy to the War is gone...'

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