Might be a crazy thought but.....
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Posted on Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:23 pm
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Daemon_Lotos wrote:
That's the thing... It's not sounding completely like a "Design Library" either... We should call it what it actually is... "Weaves that don't meet the current criteria, variations and modifications"...

It brings its own set of issues, not bad issues, but questions and concerns.

What do we do with weaves declined to the gallery? Or declines moving forward? Is this simply an "Archive" or will it have its own submission queue moving forward? What are the rules surrounding it? Etc.


1. Declined to the gallery, as in refused from both queues? Then that should be refused from the third, unless it can prove something even with bad quality.

2. Declines moving forward? What do you mean here? I believe that it should function as a B-list weave library, where the weave admin says "this goes here instead", with a queue where gallery admins and gallery submitters can add to.

That means the weave admin gets 4 options instead of 3 for weave submissions; Accept, B-list, Transfer, decline.
As well as 2 functions for the B-list; Accept and "decline transfer".

It would give gallery admins and gallery submitters the option "request move".

But this also should be accompanied by a copyright oversight, IMHO.


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Posted on Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:23 pm
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Personally I don't see a need for a design gallery. But maybe I don't understand the need because I hardly ever post things to the gallery.

Do things even get declined from the gallery? I guess I always assumed the gallery was just that: a place for pictures of mail that people made. What vetting process is there for the gallery that we need a second place to put things?

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Posted on Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:24 pm
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Ok, so I might be a bit of a geek for this, but a part of me has to laugh at this whole situation.

It reminds me of something I learned in some of my art classes. For a long time, the 'top gallery/art exhibition' for an artist to get their work into was 'the Salon' (aka. Salon de Paris or Paris Salon), however this exhibition was extremely difficult to get into and didn't care for the Impressionist artists (or really anything even remotely close to 'modern' art) and kept refusing their work. The Impressionists got so annoyed with this they started their own art exhibition calling it "Salon des Refuses": "the Salon of the Refused".



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Posted on Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:28 pm
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i see what you mean about how "designs" would be easier to find all in the same place, but looking at the weave section, it might be better to continue to divide the weave section with links to alpha weaves and so on as has been done. I'm not opposed to more things getting in the weave section as long as it gets properly organized shouldn't be a problem

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Posted on Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:45 pm
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2 things:

1. No, we don't need a gallery #2.
2. Instead. New Gallery Tag WITH gallery searching.

We have tons of gallery tags, but no real good way to sort through them (which is why I never search through the gallery). That being said, we already have a "weave descriptor" subsection that appears to have all the little sorting ideas that people are bringing up in this thread.

The only major thing it is lacking is... a good way to search through them.


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Posted on Sat Dec 19, 2015 1:06 am
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An additional tag (design, pattern) might make sense vs completed projects, but it also could be looked at as the "rejected weave" tag, just like a pattern library could be looked at as the "Sorry, it isn't a weave" library.

As for design copyright where designs cannot be reproduced... what makes a weave immune to copyright protections here? It seems to be open season that if something is in the weave library, yet nothing in the submission process nor the disclaimer in the bottom of the page seems to indicate that Weave submissions are free to copy. (If I missed where that is stated, someone point it out to me).

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Posted on Sat Dec 19, 2015 1:17 am
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i think it's essential to document what weaves have been rejected, when, and how. a problem that always comes up is when we get a new weave admin some rejected weaves are now accepted. it's happend to me and corvus a few times. where hers was rejected, mine is accepted at a later date.



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Posted on Sat Dec 19, 2015 1:30 am
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Cinnibar wrote:
An additional tag (design, pattern) might make sense vs completed projects, but it also could be looked at as the "rejected weave" tag, just like a pattern library could be looked at as the "Sorry, it isn't a weave" library.

As for design copyright where designs cannot be reproduced... what makes a weave immune to copyright protections here? It seems to be open season that if something is in the weave library, yet nothing in the submission process nor the disclaimer in the bottom of the page seems to indicate that Weave submissions are free to copy. (If I missed where that is stated, someone point it out to me).


The weave picture and text are subject to copyright, as anything would be...
Weaves themselves, however, fall under the "infinite repeatable pattern" argument... The same thing that prevents you from copyrighting a type of stitch, etc...



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Posted on Sat Dec 19, 2015 2:38 am
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Why not start by specifically NOT calling it a "Designs Library". I don't really think anyone that is suggesting we create whatever this thing will be called is wanting it specifically for "designs"... at least not what I think of as a "design".

I have many pieces of jewelry I make that are clearly "designs", yet are not new weaves. They may incorporate one or two or more weaves, or simply have a minor mod added that doesn't warrant "weavehood" unto itself. Here's one, I sell a ton of them: http://www.mailleartisans.org/gallery/gallerydisplay.php?key=8707 It's an Inverted Aura 4 variation, I don't think anyone would argue that's where it started from, yet does not warrant new "weavehood", but it's definitely a "design".

Here's another, sells pretty good as well: http://www.mailleartisans.org/gallery/gallerydisplay.php?key=8732 It's just a Celtic Visions Circle 5, made with flat wire rings in 5 different size rings, not 2, in a very tight configuration and with a few rings kinged. New weave? Nope, definitely not. Different enough to consider it a "design"? I think so.

And where did I put them when I wanted to share? Into the Gallery, which is what it is for. It is a collection of photos folks have shared with the community to show off their work. A, "Hey, folks! Look what I did! Hope ya dig it!" kind of place. A place for every first Byz bracelet, every first effort at KVB, and likewise every "master piece" (tongue planted firmly in cheek) by accomplished maillers -- and everything in between -- to be it's happy, un-judged, un-weighed and un-measured, forever home.

The Weave Library should be just that... a compendium of weaves. There is continual disagreement as to what exactly constitutes a weave... yes, it is, like it or not, at least a somewhat subjective process, and this is not any attempt to address that subject. By whatever parameters we set, the Library needs to be juried, vetted, and limited by our definitions.

A failed weave does not really fit in either of those categories. It's not what I would call a "design", and it's not a weave. It's a variation. It needn't be the "Failed Weave Library"... that just has a negative vibe from the get go. And not every rejected weave submission belongs there--that should, as I think Karpeth(?) suggested, be at the option of the Weaves Admin, and I think an accompanying explanation would help. It's another place to go before one submits a weave to see if it's been tried before. It's another learning tool to learn maybe WHY it isn't considered a new weave, and more people can see that explanation than just the submitter. And it may even serve as a place to be used in the future to help clean up both the Gallery and Weaves Library.

I am firmly of the opinion we need more than just a new tag for these things, and the use of the term "materials" is, as far as I can tell, an absolutely non-intuitive tag to use in the context of looking up "almost-weaves" and inadequately distinct to keep them separated from, for example, pics of piles of rings, which are in with that tag as well.



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Posted on Sat Dec 19, 2015 2:52 am
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Y'all were pretty busy posting while I composed that last... Wow!

djgm wrote:
i see what you mean about how "designs" would be easier to find all in the same place, but looking at the weave section, it might be better to continue to divide the weave section with links to alpha weaves and so on as has been done. I'm not opposed to more things getting in the weave section as long as it gets properly organized shouldn't be a problem


Agreed, but it seems to be a big problem with some folks as far as Library bloat.

TrenchCoatGuy wrote:
We have tons of gallery tags, but no real good way to sort through them (which is why I never search through the gallery). That being said, we already have a "weave descriptor" subsection that appears to have all the little sorting ideas that people are bringing up in this thread.

The only major thing it is lacking is... a good way to search through them.


For sure, as far as I'm concerned it would be great if both the Weaves Library and Gallery were more easily searchable, as I've mentioned a time or two, I think... but I am usually told that the problem is not that it is difficult to search, but that the searcher doesn't know how to search it as well it he/she might.



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Posted on Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:55 pm
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madd_vyking wrote:
For sure, as far as I'm concerned it would be great if both the Weaves Library and Gallery were more easily searchable, as I've mentioned a time or two, I think... but I am usually told that the problem is not that it is difficult to search, but that the searcher doesn't know how to search it as well it he/she might.


Yup, I was keen on my wording - not a "way of searching", but rather a "good way to search" them. I can search through the weaves fairly easily, but the gallery is... lacking. It has all the tags, but intersecting the tags is not as straight forward to me as it is for the weave library. Perhaps I should start making suggestions in DL's feature request thread for that...


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Posted on Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:36 am
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We could all just let it go you know?

Breath in, breath out and repeat after me.....

"I may not ever get a piece of mine in the Weaves Library and that's OK.

Those that have were first with an old design or spend a lot of time plyering a link ball.

This is not what I choose as the ultimate expression of my art. For these accolades are limited and transitory. Count is not worth and first is but the first step on an evolutionary path. I innovate in different ways."

I do not know the name of the man or woman that created Yellow. I'm glad they did, as my suns would look lack lustre without it. But I do not feel beholden to them for the discovery. Very Happy

This art form is so diverse I honestly see it like pastel vs pencil. People are prone to getting very possessive about the little points and badges. The comparison is meaningless. A ladder doesn't have to be climbed. Just let it go.

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Posted on Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:39 pm
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reform wrote:

Do things even get declined from the gallery?
I had gallery pictures declined a few times by lorrain over the picture being unclear or the discription being insufficient to replicate my design.

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Posted on Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:18 am
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i've had gallery images denied. juggling balls i made in various colors because the design was the same for each entry. the color changes were not enough of a difference. i wanted to show all the different things you could do with color and inlays - nope - denied. i'm still sore about that one.



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Posted on Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:25 am
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[quote="mithrilweaver" i'm still sore about that one.[/quote] lol, remember mithril we have to let it go Smile count to ten and put another ring on Needlenose Pliers Needlenose Pliers

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