Cis/trans?
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Posted on Sun Nov 22, 2015 7:33 pm
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so your question is regarding whether creating a 3D extention of a 2D sheet should be accepted into the weave section by current standards. is CIRSS captive inverted round structural sheet, CIR staggered sheet ? im not finding anything in search here and google wants to tell me about the center of informatics research science and scholarship.

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Posted on Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:30 am
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Karpeth wrote:
Well, they are geometrical.

Cis means same side, and in a row of CIRSS, all connector rings stay on the same side. The Collumn keps alternating, tho.

Trans means opposite side, and in a row of collumnar CIRSS, the connector rings alternate between insida and outside. The Collumn still keeps alternating, as per IR properties.

Thank you for your clarification!


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Posted on Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:32 am
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GForce wrote:
djgm wrote:
i didnt really get the "cis, trans" reference to be honest those words have nothing to do with maille as i see them.


Hi djgm, I'm guessing you mean the other common usage i.e. whether you are currently the gender assigned at birth (cis), or have switched (trans). Actually on reflection I'm amazed that this is now common enough to be "common usage", that's some progress.

It's all metaphor anyhow, that's language for you. Smile

Yes, I was worried that people would assume the common usage (I think it is common in the US, anyway). Thank you for the clarification!

Personally, I think we can find some better language for maille theory...


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Posted on Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:10 am
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djgm wrote:
so your question is regarding whether creating a 3D extention of a 2D sheet should be accepted into the weave section by current standards. is CIRSS captive inverted round structural sheet, CIR staggered sheet ? im not finding anything in search here and google wants to tell me about the center of informatics research science and scholarship.


Staggered Captive inverted Round sheet


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Posted on Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:38 pm
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lorraine wrote:
Personally, I think we can find some better language for maille theory...


I disagree. Cis and trans are commonly used in subjects like chemistry to illustrate the structure of molecules. I think those terms are perfect for mail so long as they are properly used and understood.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cis%E2%80%93trans_isomerism

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Posted on Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:08 pm
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Slagr wrote:
lorraine wrote:
Personally, I think we can find some better language for maille theory...


I disagree. Cis and trans are commonly used in subjects like chemistry to illustrate the structure of molecules. I think those terms are perfect for mail so long as they are properly used and understood.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cis%E2%80%93trans_isomerism


Thank you.

Now, to the topic at hand; have I assessed CIRSS correctly regarding CIS/Trans matters?


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Posted on Mon Nov 23, 2015 6:00 pm
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Karpeth - Please humor me. While I enjoy weave theory and the like I do not always catch on very quickly.

I have been following the discussion and I do not see anything difference between the paddle and the handle. (It could be my studying it late at night most times.) BESIDES that the handle is thicker, possibly stacking the weave or a round I can't tell. I don't see any CIS/TRAN differences, much less fully understand what you are trying to get me to comment on.

My Request: Can you please explain it in a manner that any dimwitted person can understand?

Thanks


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Posted on Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:49 pm
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MusicMan wrote:
Karpeth - Please humor me. While I enjoy weave theory and the like I do not always catch on very quickly.

I have been following the discussion and I do not see anything difference between the paddle and the handle. (It could be my studying it late at night most times.) BESIDES that the handle is thicker, possibly stacking the weave or a round I can't tell. I don't see any CIS/TRAN differences, much less fully understand what you are trying to get me to comment on.

My Request: Can you please explain it in a manner that any dimwitted person can understand?

Thanks


http://mailleartisans.org/gallery/gallerydisplay.php?key=7611

This is what the handle is.

In CIR, you have One strand.

In CIRS, Every cell has one connector ring to the next strand. The connectors are alternating sides, which is technically in One way a trans Type connection.

In CIRSS, Every cell connects to the same side, which makes a 2-strand CIRSS a cis-configured CIRS.

But!

This frees a connection area, and you can replicate the CIRS (cis) connection contralatteraly. (Which is interesting when you have 6 basal directions).

When you replicate the CIRS(cis), you Either put all the connectors in One row next to each other, Same side, cis.

If you make a hexagonal Collum, as linked, the connectors are added as Either inner or outer connectors, and as such are on different sides, therefore trans.

Is that clearer?[/url]


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Posted on Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:45 am
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Slagr wrote:
lorraine wrote:
Personally, I think we can find some better language for maille theory...


I disagree. Cis and trans are commonly used in subjects like chemistry to illustrate the structure of molecules. I think those terms are perfect for mail so long as they are properly used and understood.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cis%E2%80%93trans_isomerism

Yes, except in "maille-speak"... they are clearly not perfect for mail BECAUSE they are not properly used and understood. Look at the first comment you received? Also look at your picture example? They are not rooted in just maille. They are rooted in fetishism.

While I do not have a problem with fetishism or maille, or fetishism + maille, there are other sites to discuss the two topics together. "Trans" and "Cis" started with chemistry and geometry. Those terms have recently been usurped (in the last decade or so) for other purposes. While maillers had nothing to do with that, we can choose to use other terms. Just sayin'...


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Posted on Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:47 am
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I understand what you're saying and I don't know if I can put it in clearer terms than you have either. To answer the original question: no, I do not think it constitutes a distinct weave. The connections are otherwise identical between the cis/trans variations with the exception of the apparent angle at which each successive column builds. I do think there is a precedent in the library for it to be distinct but not simply for the cis/trans rings. The 6-columned "Staggered Captive Inverted Round Roundmaille" could be seen as distinct from "Staggered Captive Inverted Round Sheet" as well as from "Staggered Captive Inverted Round Corduroy Sheet" but the distinctions are mainly due to the relative angles between each column of CIR rather than the cis/trans isomerism even if that's what causes those distinctions in the first place.

tl;dr: No, but you could probably get away with it if you really wanted to.

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Posted on Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:48 am
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Karpeth wrote:
MusicMan wrote:
Karpeth - Please humor me. While I enjoy weave theory and the like I do not always catch on very quickly.

I have been following the discussion and I do not see anything difference between the paddle and the handle. (It could be my studying it late at night most times.) BESIDES that the handle is thicker, possibly stacking the weave or a round I can't tell. I don't see any CIS/TRAN differences, much less fully understand what you are trying to get me to comment on.

My Request: Can you please explain it in a manner that any dimwitted person can understand?

Thanks


http://mailleartisans.org/gallery/gallerydisplay.php?key=7611

This is what the handle is.

In CIR, you have One strand.

In CIRS, Every cell has one connector ring to the next strand. The connectors are alternating sides, which is technically in One way a trans Type connection.

In CIRSS, Every cell connects to the same side, which makes a 2-strand CIRSS a cis-configured CIRS.

But!

This frees a connection area, and you can replicate the CIRS (cis) connection contralatteraly. (Which is interesting when you have 6 basal directions).

When you replicate the CIRS(cis), you Either put all the connectors in One row next to each other, Same side, cis.

If you make a hexagonal Collum, as linked, the connectors are added as Either inner or outer connectors, and as such are on different sides, therefore trans.

Is that clearer?[/url]

Putting the alternate terms in parenthesis says everything. Meaning, it is not necessary.


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Posted on Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:58 am
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lorraine wrote:
They are rooted in fetishism.


That's problematic. #tiggered

I'm kidding.

Quote:
we can choose to use other terms. Just sayin'...


I'm not only strongly ideologically opposed to abandoning scientific terms to the identity-politics crowd, but I also disagree that there are other terms which can be used to describe these attributes as precisely and concisely as cis and trans can. I can understand not knowing these terms initially but I have a big problem with avoiding them because a certain group co-opted their use. Its not difficult to Google these terms to discover their true definitions, especially since upon Googling "cis trans" you'll find that the entire first page is about molecular isomerism.

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Posted on Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:28 am
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Furthermore; fetishishm?

No!

You make it sound like perveresities, when the most common usage in that context is rooted in medicine //& identity politics.

So, lorraine, CIRS and CIRSS are the same? That's what you are saying with your latest post, if I get you correctly.

Slagr, cis/trans isometrism is usually presenning as different angles.the interesting thing here is that the cis isomer is presenting as rigidity and curling, while trans is stretching flat and loose.


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Posted on Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:46 pm
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Karpeth - thanks for the layman's definition and explanation. They helped. Not having a background in the medical field I had never run into those terms before. Thank you


With that knowledge I would agree that it is not a new weave. While making the weave more versatile and would be a great article demonstrating those differences I do not feel it qualifies as a new weave.


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Posted on Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:15 am
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Karpeth wrote:
Slagr, cis/trans isometrism is usually presenning as different angles.the interesting thing here is that the cis isomer is presenting as rigidity and curling, while trans is stretching flat and loose.


That's how it tends to be in larger molecule chains too. Take 2-butene for example:



The trans isomer lies relatively linearly while the cis isomer curls. This is why I believe these terms can and should be used to describe mail structures as well.

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