Hauberk Side Pattern Not Attaching Right :(
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Hauberk Side Pattern Not Attaching Right :(
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Posted on Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:23 pm
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Hi guys,

So I'm trying to finish my mail hauberk but the sides are only connecting on one side, aka I can attach the two pieces of the shirt (front/back) on the left side, but on the right seam, no matter how I arrange the rings, nothing makes them align properly. Sad

It's your basic 4-1 weave pattern.

Anyone know how to fix this or encountered this before?

I can supply pictures if my above description wasn't clear enough.

Thanks in advance and kind regards!

A.

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Posted on Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:04 pm
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Pictures would help. Smile


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Posted on Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:32 pm
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Have you seen this link? http://homepage.ntlworld.com/trevor.barker/farisles/guilds/armour/mail.htm
I swear on a stack of Lord of the Rings books, I do not get a residual check whenever I give out that link... It just seems to be helpful. Very Happy


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Posted on Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:16 am
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lorraine wrote:

I swear on a stack of Lord of the Rings books, I do not get a residual check whenever I give out that link... It just seems to be helpful. Very Happy


LOL, you should by now.

EDIT: To be slightly helpful to the OP. You may want to check this article, in particular what's done at step 5.


Mostly Harmless

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Posted on Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:03 am
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Hi guys, thanks for the replies.

So here are links to two photos for the mail I'm working on. I'm trying to have this all done as one flowing piece and not have any 45 degree any breaks in it.

The first link is the weave attaching normally around the right side.




The second is a photo of what I'm trying to do around the left, but it's just not attaching right - right under the zip tabs you can see the links buckling, aka, the rows going opposite directions. How is this possible on one side and not the other???

[img]
[/img]

Thanks guys!

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Posted on Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:23 am
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I'd say you're attaching the wrong row. Try to Add some rings to change what rings are to be attached.


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Posted on Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:37 am
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What you have should work. If you're off a row as Karpeth says or have an extra column, that would account for it.

If your counts are correct you should just be able to start at the bottom seaming 2x2 rings with each one, working your way up to the armpit.


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Posted on Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:50 am
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I've noticed that at the bottom they don't match up either. I'll try adding one row and see if that makes a difference. Any chance it could add up to more that that?

Honestly I've just never seen this before and have been doing mail for quiet some time - frustrating as hell Coif Smiley

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Posted on Thu Nov 05, 2015 4:54 am
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This is why I tell people never do fronts + backs in shirt making, but always do a single big rectangle long enough to go around you and then seam up into a tube -- along with some modification to the tube, or barrel, to tailor the shirt and keep it disinclined, at least, to slide down through your cinch-belt from its weight as you move.

Did you find any discontinued rows anywhere in your weave? If you can count the number of linkrows on each side and the numbers come out different, there's your warning flag.

How about your shoulder section, atop your body barrel? What kind is it? Do you know whether it really has the same number of linkrows both sides, if you built the shoulder section as straps attaching to the barrel and then filled in between?

It might be easier to figure out what your linkrows are doing with a different pic. Lay the shirt down and slide a piece of paper or pale cardboard/manila folder inside it to make a background for the seam that won't match up, with good exposure of the linkrows approaching the problem area. Rather close-up is better than far away enough to get the whole side of the shirt in the pic. We want a really good look at how the linkrows lie.


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Posted on Thu Nov 05, 2015 4:47 pm
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Hi all,

Per Konstatin's request, here are some photos to hopefully gauge what might be going on. (Sorry man, didn't know what you meant by 'link rows').

1st is the whole shirt.



2nd is the Shoulder (Right) - Problem Side



3rd is the Shoulder (Left) - Normal Side



4th is using a folder to see where things might be/not be matching up. It didn't do this yesterday....



5th is an overview shot. I think I see what the problem is (need another row at the bottom to be able to attach at the top), but if you guys notice anything else please call it out!



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Posted on Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:30 pm
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If you start at the bottom, it should Stich up properly. You're Either misaligned or missing a few rings.


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Posted on Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:48 pm
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You need to first add (or remove) one column of rings from one of the two edges you are trying to seam together.

You're trying to stitch a seam where the outermost rings are on alternating rows
Code:

)))  O)))
((O  ((((
)))  O)))
((O  ((((
)))  O)))


Adding one ring every other row on the left side puts all outermost rings on the same row
Code:

)))) O)))
((O  ((((
)))) O)))
((O  ((((
)))) O)))

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Posted on Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:52 pm
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It looks fine in shot 4, start from the bottom up and then figure out where the armpit is off (if it is).

You may want to use some marker rings to help count things out, I use large copper rings every 10 rows to keep track at a glance.


Mostly Harmless

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Posted on Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:07 pm
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EricN wrote:
You need to first add (or remove) one column of rings from one of the two edges you are trying to seam together.

You're trying to stitch a seam where the outermost rings are on alternating rows
Code:

)))  O)))
((O  ((((
)))  O)))
((O  ((((
)))  O)))


Adding one ring every other row on the left side puts all outermost rings on the same row
Code:

)))) O)))
((O  ((((
)))) O)))
((O  ((((
)))) O)))


That is the usual problem, but it seems like it's not this time. Look at the pics.


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Posted on Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:54 am
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Though I do see what he's saying by that, and yes: one side, or edge, needs to angle over, to overhang, the other side in order to zip the two sides together with a single row of links.

Otherwise you need to add one more link-column before you then close it up, or undo one, and use that to zip everything together.

A link-row is the horizontal row, that grain in the fabric of mail. Looks like this ))))))))))))))))))).
The linkrow below it and meshing with it lies the other way and looks like this (((((((((((((((((((((((. And so on down the shirt, row by row.

A link column (hyphen or no) is the perpendicular direction from the row, running vertically in wear and on the shirt. A mail coif's cowl or a medieval camail, which is about half a coif, has its columns radiating out from where your neck is, and its rows going round in circles or in polygons, depending how you assembled that piece.

Get somewhere different on you, and those circles the linkrows make go all the way around you -- though that's not quite the same.

Overall, I favor adding in another column of mail to set up to zip the two edges together because it's usually best with mail to err on the side of generosity. An added five sixteenths of an inch isn't going to make a lot of difference just in itself.

To zip edges together with just one column of links requires that one side angle, or lie, like /, while the other side be / also, so that your zipping-together column goes in like /\/ between them, as it must. If they ain't doin' that, then one side or the other should be slid up or down one linkrow's worth. And you'll want to undo whatever's in the armpit, because right now I think you have those rows tied together wrong with that ribbon.

Like I said above, think horizontally and wrapping around, not two panels and going over the top vertically, and you never get this situation again.

Twist ties and bread wrapper closures make good, bright colored markers too.


'The Minstrel Boy to the War is gone...'

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