2015 Ironmailler Challenge
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Joined: October 22, 2010
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Location: Yucaipa, CA

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Posted on Mon May 11, 2015 8:35 pm
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It does not in any way exclude the work from being submitted to MAIL and being used in the proposed database. Given that your book's objective is to publish and sell copies, it isn't particularly strategic to give all that work to MAIL (which is likely why no MAIL members have asked you to submit any quantity of that valuable and time-consuming work to MAIL yet).


completely not the point. i'm not looking to win some contest where the winner gets a badge. the point is, when you noted the similarity in contest, daemon should have responded and he did not. he just ignored it. he should have said something like, "i had no idea they were so similar, complete accident" or "maybe i should ask mithril about this before going further." see, that would be polite. but no such courtesy is given. that is the point.

Quote:
No, what you did was reply to a thread constructively for a few days, sit and stew, and then 8 days later (when the thread had zero activity over those 8 days), come back and take a swipe at me, thinly veiled as sarcasm.


don't presume to know me outside of this forum. i honestly was just waiting to see how many people saw the similarity to my book and this contest. i wasn't mad or stewing. people that know me, know that i don't believe in intellectual property and i give away tons of information away all the time. so, no it did not irritate me that you were using a similar idea to my own. what irritates me is that no respect is given. when someone points out a similarity in ideas, it is your responsibility to make sure the originator is not slighted. i could care less about the idea. what i want is to be treated fairly. when you ignore the similarity and don't communicate with me, then we have a problem.

Quote:
I can't speak for lorraine, or even for you... But I know that if I saw other people on MAIL posting the same sarcastic reply aimed at another member, I'd call them on it... And the membership would expect to SEE them called on it.


my sarcastic reply was an attempt at dishing you your own medicine. how many posts have you and lorraine written with sarcastic remarks? way more. so, don't point your finger at me. look in the mirror.

Quote:
mithrilweaver: For all intents and purposes, taking that shot at me was a pretty dick move... Full Stop.


this is another example of poor leadership. when an admin resorts to calling someone's sarcastic post "dick move," we have a problem. as a leader, it is in poor taste to use foul language. a better way of handling it would be to say "i don't appreciate that jab at me." "dick move" should be stricken and you should remove yourself from your position or be reprimanded. kids come to this site. set a positive example. full stop.



Joined: August 30, 2008
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Location: Burlington, ON, Canada

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Posted on Mon May 11, 2015 8:47 pm
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mithrilweaver wrote:
you should remove yourself from your position


Done.


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Joined: August 05, 2010
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Location: Bar Harbor, ME, USA

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Posted on Mon May 11, 2015 9:58 pm
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mithrilweaver and Daemon_Lotos, I suggest you read (or reread) How To Talk To People On A Discussion Forum, specifically the part about "Discussions Vs Arguments". This argument is far from being fruitful anymore.

I would classify the majority of mithrilweaver's recent posts as personal attacks, which is not very constructive for resolving problems at all. In DL's most recent post, he also had a personal attack included.

My comments thus far have been limited to talking about the issues in an attempt to clarify where the problems are without "taking a side". Stop with the personal attacks, mithrilweaver. You are entitled to an opinion. You are not entitled to control everyone else's opinions and personally attack them. You are not entitled to personally attack other MAIL users, including the admins. In the past couple weeks, you have passive-aggressively attacked three admins. That is not okay. I suspect that after this comment, I will now be a target of personal attacks from you.

There are significantly more constructive methods of getting your points across that are NOT at the expense of other users.


while(!project.isFinished())
project.addRing();
// Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Eo.n Fper MFe.s Wsm Caws G0.8-1.6 I2.4-8.0 Pn Dcdejst Xw1 S07

Joined: October 22, 2010
Posts: 618
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Location: Yucaipa, CA

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Posted on Mon May 11, 2015 10:40 pm
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i depends what you define as a personal attack. i think i am pointing out rudeness and foul language. to you, that is may be a personal attack. you may think this is a personal attack on you, but i do not. i just disagree that i have personally attacked anyone. i pointed out a line of discussion whereas daemon did not respond to the similarity between my book and his challenge. my judgement of that is rudeness or not polite. i'm not calling daemon a rude person. i'm calling his action rude. the "dick move" comment is a judgement of my sarcastic comment. he's not calling me a "dick." the problem is that "dick" is foul language for a forum that caters to all ages. that is definitely bad behavior and i admire daemon's maturity in stepping down. it may seem harsh to loose a productive awesome coder, but admins really need to be held to a higher standard when it comes to personal interaction.



Joined: June 20, 2012
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Location: France

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Posted on Mon May 11, 2015 11:06 pm
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Mithrilweaver, sorry to burst your bubble but you haven't invented the concept of graphic consistency.
It's one of the most basic and fundamental designing concept.
Complaining you're not credited for having the idea to apply it before, while lot of people applied it even before in other fields, and lot of people apply it everyday, is totally uncalled for.

Here you could have used the opportunity to revive interest in your project and get more people to help you. For example, by reminding everybody you're giving one share of your book for shipping to you samples of weaves you need in 16SWG saw cut stainless steel. That's what you offered two years ago ; now it would be a double intensive with improving M.A.I.L.
Benefits for everyone!

It's far easier to get people move in your way by being helpful than by bashing them.

Joined: October 22, 2010
Posts: 618
Submissions: 378
Location: Yucaipa, CA

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Posted on Mon May 11, 2015 11:22 pm
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Quote:
Mithrilweaver, sorry to burst your bubble but you haven't invented the concept of graphic consistency.


when did i ever claim to have invented graphic consistency? the point is, i had an idea, the application of graphic consistency to chainmaille. maybe someone came up with it before me... who knows? but, if someone pointed out to me that it was another person's idea before me, i would start a conversation with them. i would make sure i wasn't stepping on any toes. that didn't happen. i usually let stuff like that go anyways. people steal my ideas all the time and i don't call them out on it. if no one had pointed it out, i would have moved on. but someone (trench coat guy) did and then it got ignored by daemon. that's a problem in my eyes.



Joined: August 05, 2010
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Location: Bar Harbor, ME, USA

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Posted on Mon May 11, 2015 11:41 pm
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mithrilweaver wrote:
but someone (trench coat guy) did and then it got ignored by daemon..


Just to clarify, I linked to a 2 year old thread that hadn't had a post in over a year or the desired product that it was aiming to achieve. To be honest, it looked like a incomplete project that people lost interest. Your comments in this thread supported that idea. I felt that there was nothing left to discuss on the topic and if you had wished to revive the project, you would do so in another thread.

I would also like to note that the moderators in that project thread of yours showed only positive remarks, lorraine being one of them.


while(!project.isFinished())
project.addRing();
// Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Eo.n Fper MFe.s Wsm Caws G0.8-1.6 I2.4-8.0 Pn Dcdejst Xw1 S07

Joined: October 22, 2010
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Location: Yucaipa, CA

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Posted on Mon May 11, 2015 11:52 pm
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look, the bigger picture is that i want what's best for mail. i want people to be respectful of each other, i want admins to treat members better, and i want admins to be held to a higher standard (language, politeness, kindness). are those not virtuous ideals that we should all share for this site? are these not good intentions? why do i keep getting emails and pm that say "thank you so much for posting what you did." and why do you think those people don't post that statement on mail, in this thread? they are scared of the reaction from the admins. the reaction is always gang up on the member. suppress the member, sensor the member. they don't want the headache of having to deal with stuff like this. they are excited about chainmaille and they want to be heard and treated kindly. i'm no martyr. i'm standing up for them - the ones who are afraid of voicing their opinion. the one's who still come to this site and only look through the threads, the ones who would never dare to speak their thoughts in such a hostile environment.



Joined: October 22, 2010
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Location: Yucaipa, CA

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Posted on Tue May 12, 2015 12:06 am
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Quote:
Just to clarify, I linked to a 2 year old thread that hadn't had a post in over a year or the desired product that it was aiming to achieve. To be honest, it looked like a incomplete project that people lost interest. Your comments in this thread supported that idea. I felt that there was nothing left to discuss on the topic and if you had wished to revive the project, you would do so in another thread.


i am still working on it, just without help. my website's weave library is based on the same idea. even if i was sitting on the idea and doing nothing, it would still be respectful to start a conversation with the originator once notice was given of it's similarity.



Joined: August 05, 2010
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Location: Bar Harbor, ME, USA

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Posted on Tue May 12, 2015 12:41 am
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mithrilweaver wrote:
i am still working on it


Maybe you should post an update in your thread. We both know what type of assumptions people come to after a year of no updates.


while(!project.isFinished())
project.addRing();
// Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Eo.n Fper MFe.s Wsm Caws G0.8-1.6 I2.4-8.0 Pn Dcdejst Xw1 S07

Joined: October 22, 2010
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Location: Yucaipa, CA

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Posted on Tue May 12, 2015 1:19 am
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Maybe you should post an update in your thread. We both know what type of assumptions people come to after a year of no updates.


your saying that i assumed narrina was no longer an admin since i hadn't heard from her in a year. at the top of that thread i asked the question "did we loose narrina as an admin? hardly an assumption. are you trying to gently guide me off topic by addressing my book thread and it's non activity? why should i post an update? what does it really matter? do you think an idea dies when a thread is discontinued for a certain time? are you saying it's understandable that daemon would look at the thread and say, "it's been a while now that no one posted on this, i think i'll use it for my challenge?" no, that's not acceptable behavior. i don't even think he knew about it, or he may have seen it, forgot about it, and then his subconscious gave him the idea. that's more understandable. so, my thread and it's activity really has no bearing if daemon didn't know about it. make sense?



Joined: December 22, 2007
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Posted on Tue May 12, 2015 3:21 am
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mithrilweaver, I have no idea what you hoped to accomplish with your posts in this thread but your conduct has been destructive and despicable. I will continue to hold myself to my own standards and not yours, thank you very much.


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Joined: February 8, 2013
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Posted on Tue May 12, 2015 4:50 am
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Daemon_Lotos wrote:
mithrilweaver wrote:
you should remove yourself from your position


Done.


What? Has DL resigned now?

(reels in shock and disbelief)

Tell me this isn't true.

If it is true... well, best of luck DL, you've done a thankless task and gotten nothing but flack. (sigh)


Craft isn't cheaper than therapy, but it's more fun.

Joined: August 05, 2010
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Location: Bar Harbor, ME, USA

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Posted on Tue May 12, 2015 5:16 am
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mithrilweaver wrote:
TrenchCoatGuy wrote:
mithrilweaver wrote:
TrenchCoatGuy wrote:
Just to clarify, I linked to a 2 year old thread that hadn't had a post in over a year or the desired product that it was aiming to achieve. To be honest, it looked like a incomplete project that people lost interest. Your comments in this thread supported that idea. I felt that there was nothing left to discuss on the topic and if you had wished to revive the project, you would do so in another thread.

i am still working on it...

Maybe you should post an update in your thread. We both know what type of assumptions people come to after a year of no updates.

... why should i post an update? what does it really matter? ...


...
You're right, I shouldn't care about that project of yours anymore if you're going to treat me like trash for asking for an update.


while(!project.isFinished())
project.addRing();
// Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Eo.n Fper MFe.s Wsm Caws G0.8-1.6 I2.4-8.0 Pn Dcdejst Xw1 S07

Joined: April 15, 2002
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Location: Calgary, AB. Canada.

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Posted on Tue May 12, 2015 1:19 pm
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Daemon_Lotos wrote:
Done.


Long time no see man.

You've put up with the dren and abuse some members of this community feel entitled to attack volunteers with for... Jeez, what has it been, 5 years longer than I could?

It's just utterly shameful how some people have conducted themselves.

"I had this idea about improving MAIL, here's a fun contest, I've put in a lot of work to enable it so far and am stepping up to do a lot more work as a result of this."
"I had a barely-similar personal project several years ago that has seen no progress or participation in years. But you're stealing my idea and then EXCLUDING ME FROM THIS CONTEST. CORRUPTION! CORRUPTION! I'M A VICTIM."
"I had no idea. Stop being an ass."
"Did you see what he called me? I can't believe it. Once again the admins are acting unprofessional and attacking us. I'M A VICTIM."

And these people can't be reasoned with. Some unhappiness in their lives and how they feel about themselves distorts everything they see. They're blind that anyone else might not hate them as much as they hate themselves. It's genuinely sad but it's sadder that they drag everyone else who was doing good down with them.

On the plus side DL, you now have extra spare time to spend in communities that don't have or don't support these petty and toxic personalities, and can start to enjoy your hobbies again Smile.

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