Will I be able to move?
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Will I be able to move?
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Posted on Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:21 am
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I would appreciate help from any experienced LARPers. Anyway, I intend on making a hauberk and leg guards from riveted galvy (16 gauge), wearing a cote of plates, and a gambeson.

Hauberk estimates: 4' by 28" with 3' sleeves (Euro 4:1 trapezoids joined by byzantine) 1/4 mile of wire (from what I have read) at <22>

Gambeson: 1/2 inch cotton padding bound in either leather or cotton (leather would probably be vegetable tanned deer hide)

Coat of Plates: 1/3 inch pattern welded steel plates (interlocking octagonal pattern (3 layers make up the 1/3 inch), cold worked and water cooled. Wired into leather.

Alternative Coat of Plates: 1/4" aluminum triangular plates

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Posted on Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:24 am
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you are going to rivet galvanized steel? butted 16swg stainless maille shouldnt be too heavy, and for larping butted with decent cuts would most likely suffice.

oh i read on..plate maille on top?? what are you hitting eachother with, rocks?

if you feel you need that much protection from a boffer you probly don't have the body mass to wear it all.

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Posted on Fri Sep 19, 2014 6:59 am
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LARPers fight with boffer weapons -- see Dagorhir or Amtgard for the two most popular. Dagorhir pad their shields with a couple inches of foam, and their weaponry comparably. Two inches of foam cored with PVC piping to stiffen it, you don't remotely even need armor to live through getting thwacked with.

You look like you're trying to armor for rebated steel, and you don't seem aware that riveted links call at one point in the process to be heated to red to remove workhardening so you can use your piercing drift and not snap its business end off. Red heat vaporizes zinc, and Anvilfire can tell you a lot about the elderly smith who died of inhaling too much of that -- chemical pneumonia carried Paw Paw Wilson off and he is mourned yet.

Vaporized zinc isn't hydrogen cyanide -- not even close -- but breathing it will give you the worst headache and a twitch. Which goes away. In a couple days. Don't get "foundry flu," it's not nice and it ain't light either.

If you rivet, don't start with galvy wire. Start with bare steel wire, even if you have to normalize plain 1008 or 1016 welder wire to get there, and like as not that's what you'll use. For wire any price around a dollar a pound is a good price. For riveted, you'll have a better time of it with wire diameter of around 0.048" or rather finer -- 18 gauge. If you get welder wire, they don't do gauge at the welding-supplies store; ask by decimal-inch diameter. Gauge -- it's too imprecise for them; they're kinda snobby that way.

16ga non-galvanized is okay for building double-mail or weaving larger diameter links, but 18ga is easier to pierce with a drift. I would not usually go smaller than 5/16" ID for links from 16.

Have you ever built a mailshirt before? For I'm having trouble making complete sense of the measurements you give. A hauberk can stretch about four feet shoulders to hem, yes. By twenty-eight inches, do you mean that's one side of it, measured across? Generally we find the total chest and waist circumferences more helpful, and a stretched-out chest measure of 56" around is a plausible enough measurement for a gambeson-wearing, 44"-chest adult. The waistline can and should be of smaller circumference, though never so much smaller you can't pass your shoulders through the waisting as you put on the shirt. Keeps your shirt's weight from trying to slide it down through your waistbelt when that weight is definitely sitting on your hips more than a straight, tubular body to the shirt would give. I suppose you meant three inches of sleeve off each shoulder and not three feet? Norman-era 'berks had half-sleeves; Crusades-era 'berks had long sleeves with mittens on the ends. The 14th-century haburgeon had short sleeves and a mid-thigh hem.

In any LARP context and most rebated-steel ones or anything between the two, you may be better off armoring your legs in stiffly quilted cloth and steel knee cops, 14th-century style again. Google "making Gamboised Cuisse" for what one of these things is and how to make one.

Your gambeson is either very poofy or way thick. What you want in a gambeson is density and shock absorption, and nothing in commercial manufacture these days suits of itself. You have to make 'em or buy 'em from medievalist suppliers. Their construction is like lasagna layers: a mix of linen cloth, heavy linen cloth with perhaps some 100% wool blanketing -- no poly blend nuthin' but maybe the thread to sew it. Under a mailshirt you're not going to need more than about two layers of middleweight 100% linen, one layer of wool blanket, and a layer of heavier linen, for wear. And that's against SCA hardstick rattan batons at that! Against LARPy foamies you may just manage nicely with one layer of heavyweight linen. Linen rides cooler than anything else, and wicks sweat away. Marvelous for lining helmets with, all the way to the metal. I wouldn't advise any leather content to your gamby at all -- for then you can launder it! Important in 21st century America. If you honestly want leather in there anywhere, make it into a separate thing and put it on over your gambeson.

LARP foamie swords won't batter or damage butted-link mail at all. SCA hardstick knocks holes in butted eventually, but not terribly badly if you've used dense enough AR, AR4 to 5, and stout enough wire. With 14 gauge wire you can easily go AR6. 16ga doesn't like that. Rebated steel, which is not LARP by quite a long shot, needs riveted mail.

A real coat of plates, like a brigandine, puts its scales on the inside of its shell. Pattern-welded is very pretty steel, but if you've made patternwelded in your life, you know how much of a blacksmith's shop you have to have, and how much effort it takes to reliably make pattern-welded and what level of forgewelding skill you have to achieve. And you know why the stuff costs like it does. Patternwelding formulations center around making good, efficient cutting blades from steels so mixed, which is not what's needed for armoring -- blade steel needs greater hardness to hold an edge, while armor needs mainly toughness to hold together under hits, punctures, and shearings. Some hardness is quite good: a Rockwell C scale hardness around 40 (good knives are 55 to about 60 on that scale) is high performance plate and takes heat treat to hit. Such plate armor can be made very light and thin; it is just marvelous for cap-à-pie plate armor (never "plate maille") -- but for a first coat of plates, 22ga stainless does every bit as well and is stiffer than the same thickness in mild steel. As for patternwelding scales for a C.o.P., I counsel that you forget it! Not cost effective, to a hideously astonishing degree, and no better than homogenous steel for the job anyway. You want to make a lightweight CoP, snip it out of the widest steel pallet banding you can get hold of, like the 2" stuff. Pallet banding is very thin, and plenty stiff.

If you've got a stash of patternwelded lying around, and an equipped smithy, make something else of it: a blade, a deluxe helmet nasal right out there front and center -- something people can see. Don't hide it under a shell garment.

Deerhide is nice stuff. Make buckskins out of it and take up blackpowder shooting. The stuff also makes a good and remarkably fancy integral sword belt thonged into (literally, into) a sword scabbard -- in the thirteenth century, a lot of the time they didn't even buckle deerskin sword belts. They tied them shut, passing long, swallowtailed thongs on one end of the belt through two teardrop-shaped holes in the other. See Oakeshott, The Archaeology of Weapons.

One third of an inch thick?? You're overarmoring, to put it politely -- you haven't done this before, have you? Quarter-inch aluminum plate?? -- same story. If you're trying to stop .32 ACP bullets, that's one thing. But no LARPs shoot at each other with centerfire ball ammo.


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Posted on Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:22 am || Last edited by losthelm on Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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I suspect the 1/3" is just a math error converting from metric to imperial standard.
1/3" works out to around 8.5mm


Most combat groups have standards for weapons and armour defined to keep people fairly safe. I would start by looking at the standards and networking with the locals. They may have a build group or some sort of mentor ship program to get you started.
some groups focus more of the weapon while others spend the resources on the armour.

Things change a bit when you start dealing with mounted combat but that's much less common usually with heavier armour on impact points and much lighter armour everywhere else.

There are only a few historical examples of armour that thick.
Most are prototypes from WWI WWII and a few pieces of armour worn by criminals post 1900.

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Re: Will I be able to move?
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Posted on Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:27 am
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Androidtribble wrote:
Gambeson: 1/2 inch cotton padding
Coat of Plates: 1/3 inch pattern welded steel plates

I've once gone to a military armored vehicles show, and they had thiner armor.

So, unless you're LARPing in a real war field, I don't quite see what's the point.
To answer your question, yes, by sitting on a tank you'll be able to move. But you may have trouble to get out quickly if the tank gets hit. Coif LoL

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Posted on Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:10 pm || Last edited by Androidtribble on Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Thanks everyone! I thought I might be overdoing it a little... lol. Anyway I intended on using real (blunted) swords (I am leader of the local group which hopes to be formed... sadly I have as much experience as the rest of the group combined.)
Anyway I was reading several forums and some literature on period armour and apparently got carried away... I am by no means near as fit as a 13th century swordsman (28" was total waist circumference and I was going for full sleeves).
Alright, good thing I didnt spend money on the materials yet.
    New Plan

    Gambeson: Course linen, over wool, over fine linen. Would it be acceptable to weave aluminum wire throughout it too or not?
    Maille Hauberk: Same dimensions 16 gauge riveted aluminum instead.
    Coat of Plates: Wood or 1/8th inch sheet metal in 2" tiles

Sound better? Also, I did know about metal fume fever... I just thought that anodizing the rings was to make it easier... and just a suggestion. Thanks for setting me straight there too. Also, the main point I was adding leather was that I read that it would provide better protection and was commonly worn under mail, and that I live near a taxidermist who does more butchery than taxidermy and would probably sell hides cheaply.

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Posted on Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:25 pm
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Unrelated... the local hardware store is trying to tell me that their 16 gauge galvy wire holds 6750 lbs... as a physics student I am not buying it. Thought you guys might find it humourous though

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Posted on Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:39 pm
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See if you have any members of this group locally.
battleofthenations.org

They do full contact/speed rebated steel combat.

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Posted on Sat Sep 20, 2014 1:28 am
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combat with real metal weaponry even dull is very dangerous. you might be better to lead your friends in an actual LARP campaign with foam swords so no one gets seriously injured or the cops get called on you. there are tonnes of tutorials on have to make LARP weaponry like boffers online. they are inexpensive and not very time consuming to make. this is how people start and practice in a safe responsible way. you could work your way up to using rattan sticks as your armor becomes more protective, but only combat with people you trust not to whack you so hard your arm gets broken, research safety rules of groups like the SCA and have a referee observing to make sure everyone is safe. combat is not a game it can be fun but not a game.

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Posted on Sat Sep 20, 2014 2:09 am
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djgm wrote:
combat with real metal weaponry even dull is very dangerous. you might be better to lead your friends in an actual LARP campaign with foam swords so no one gets seriously injured or the cops get called on you. there are tonnes of tutorials on have to make LARP weaponry like boffers online. they are inexpensive and not very time consuming to make. this is how people start and practice in a safe responsible way. you could work your way up to using rattan sticks as your armor becomes more protective, but only combat with people you trust not to whack you so hard your arm gets broken, research safety rules of groups like the SCA and have a referee observing to make sure everyone is safe. combat is not a game it can be fun but not a game.


Just to add a bit to this:
Even if all you do go with is the foam 'boffer' combat, it's usually a good idea to have at least one person not involved in the fighting who's got a current first aid certification (as well as a collection of relevant materials close to hand).

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Posted on Sat Sep 20, 2014 5:06 am
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Even the foam warriors prefer rigid coverage of the throat and the groin. Things happen in the field. The boffer people often equip with leather... well, I'd call them masks, they say they're helmets. They do fit over the skull. They seem to function about like wrestlers' ear protectors -- your ear doesn't sting from a hard boffer hit there, if you have a boffer-fighting rule set that allows striking at the head, which I think is a difference between Amtgard on the one hand and Dagorhir on the other.

So: rebated steel then? That puts you well away from LARP for the center of what you want your group to do. Reenactor choreographed and semichoreographed combat, or BotN fighting until submission or dazed? There are organizations aimed at both, separately. Try Adrian Empire, or the Armored Combat League, the ACL. If you've chosen some outfit, or have a list of candidate groups, to work with, advise us. It will give shape to our understanding -- and to that of the Armour Archive, which is simply stiff with very experienced armour people who ought to be able to teach you and your friends what you really need. Losthelm and I can both be found there.

Rebated weapons of the best sort are literally cut back: their "blades," of rounded-off rectangular section, are made narrower than the full width of a comparable cutting blade, to keep the weight and balance the same. A full-width rectangular section like == has more metal in it than something with edges made in the same width: <>. Too heavy, unless it's trimmed to something more like =.

The nice thing about rattan-stick fighting SCA style is there are a LOT of people in MANY places doing it, and you and your friends can have a whole bunch of swordplaymates -- this group has been around nearly fifty years and is present in England -- see Insula Draconis for contact persons.


Quote:
28" was total waist circumference and I was going for full sleeves.
Lanky young thing, aren't you? Laughing Don't forget your gambeson will add to that waist measurement -- generally I like to advise waist plus 10-12", chest measurement plus 10" for mail shirts, to give room for both you and your gamby. Riveted mail, welded mail, or half and half solid and riveted mail is going to have to be your mailshirt if you're playing rebated-steel. Butted mail won't cope.

I don't know why you're relying on mail on your limbs if you are using rebated steel. I'd stop the mailshirt sleeves at your elbow and use something solid and platey all the way down from there -- and a steel elbow cop too. There are people who make heat-treated spring-steel gauntlets of immense strength and protectiveness, like Darkheart Armoury in America. The gauntlets go for a thousand bucks US the pair. They work great by all accounts. Money well spent if you've got it. You know, they don't allow you to go around selling a kidney to get it...

Your knees and your elbows shall both want steel cops on them. Nothing less. Nice stiff stainless if you want to get serious about it; stuff's harder to dent than mild steel. Broken bones within joints are trouble to fix up back to good as new. You might not get that kind of superb reconstructive treatment, what with NHS -- you guys in England have already had ObamaCare for a long time and look what it's done to you. So, watch it. Armor the joints well, especially protect the wrist joints and ankles. These are glide joints and they are even worse to completely repair if damaged.

Quote:
Gambeson: Coarse linen, over wool, over fine linen. Would it be acceptable to weave aluminum wire throughout it too or not?

Leave the wire out or your skin will positively HATE you for doing it! Besides, that's what the mail is supposed to do -- on the OUTSIDE of the gambeson, as God intended. You don't need the redundancy, though you might consider including plastic (or 6061 aluminum alloy in a high T hardness like T5 or T6) splints or multisegmented plates, covering your kidneys around to your waist's right and left sides, and some gently cupped hard stuff at each shoulder point. These are vulnerable to swats -- shoulder bones could get broken, bashed kidneys make you pee very interesting colors. These reinforcements can go either into or on the outside of the gambeson. SCA stick players have a lot of experience with this.

Quote:
Maille Hauberk: Same dimensions 16 gauge riveted aluminum instead.

And you've just run blithely into gauge-system problems. Gauge for steel wires -- Steel Wire Gauge, mysteriously enough -- is not the same as the gauge used for aluminum, copper, and brass wire -- the American Wire Gauge, which runs skinnier gauge number for gauge number than steel wire.

You'd want 14ga aluminum wire.

And you don't want aluminum for this job anyway. Not in wire form. The stuff is very hard to rivet by the conventional process because aluminum fatigues too fast compared to steel, which can take more, and more violent, coldworking before it breaks. Sounds like you want to keep the shirt's weight under control. Well, to get the strength in the aluminum wire, you'd need to use quite fat, heavy gauge wire. Takes away a lot of the weight savings you were looking for.

Here's what you do: use thin-gauge steel wire instead, even down to 19 or 20 gauge SWG, and rivet. A timesaver and something of a weight saver in itself is to spend money to get about fifteen thousand steel spacer rings from a washer factory. The alternative, also spendy if you buy new, is to get a Roper-Whitney No.7A bench metal punch and spend all the rest of this year chunking the rings out of thin scrap metal or sheet metal -- something thinner than the 19-20ga wire is.

Thin enough steel wire is lighter than strong enough aluminum wire, and less trouble to rivet or weld. Fella down in Arizona name of Gordon Osterstrom is in the welded-mail business. He can weld you mail of titanium: light, yes. Very costly too. Well, you could tell everybody it's mithril; it isn't going to rust. He can weld you stainless mail too.

AZON Corp Frodo-mail in stainless is welded also, and is used for butchers' gloves and safety aprons. I think a rebated sword could still tear through a sheet of it. It doesn't look like medieval mail anyway -- from a distance it looks like heavy silvery-gray cloth. Suitable for other tasks than yours; you want something with more meat to it; otherwise that would be the way to go.

Quote:
Coat of Plates: Wood or 1/8th inch sheet metal in 2" tiles

Sigh. As you said, you're majoring in physics, not materials science. Wood is unsuitable for it won't last a single practice. Don't take Wakfu or WoW as authoritative sources on armor materials, okay? Particularly not WoW, btw; their armor is really stupid. They aren't playing football.

Things like this tell me your "as much experience as everyone else together" is still too close to zero experience for simply everyone involved for my liking. Wood. Ghod Awlmighty... don't use wood. You'll hate picking out the bloody splinters. Bloody isn't a metaphor.

Or did I miss some kind of joke?

For your CoP, thin and stiff is what you need, not 1/8" mild steel plate. As you worried, you wouldn't be able to move, it's too heavy. After all, the plates in a CoP overlap, a lot. That's why they have to stay thin; they will have double layers if not threefold layers of metal. Do not go heavier than about 20 gauge stainless, which is about .036", or 22ga, about .030" thick. Stainless often shows up in exact measured thicknesses. Stainless that thin you can handily dish with a 4-5lb hammer too, for a slightly domed shape and absolutely no more weight, yet more strength and dent resistance. It'll still dent, just less. It also tucks the scale edges in a little bit to fit scales better to your body. Take a look at your torso in the mirror. Not only is it not a cylinder, but being flesh and bone it is all a collection of little convex curvatures. To fit you neatly and closely, metal armor should go around those curvatures too. Keep a wee bulge at the least in every piece of armor plate. You are entirely of 3-D curves throughout.

Mars Needs Helms -- being God of War why wouldn't he?

We should get some idea what your merry band is going to do for skull protection. You haven't mentioned head armor yet. You'll seriously need some. The 1/8" steel plate you spoke of would quite suit a couple of spots on a steel-player's helm: the forehead plate, which gets severely hammered in use, and the ventail, or face, plate, which is also somewhat vulnerable hanging out in front as it does, and is drilled full of breathing holes to boot which at least in theory weaken parts of it. The steel is pretty beefy to work unless you work it hot -- so do you or do you not have hotworking capability?

I'm going to crosspost some stuff I recently wrote for Armour Archive on helms for first timers -- helms hammered out cold. You'd want to build a little bit heavier in the helm than the stick-fighters need, but not very much more.

Five-plate barrel helms have one trick I just heard about that I think your group should use. The clever trick is don't make the top cap from flat sheet steel -- instead use a weldable steel pipe cap. These come in a lot of sizes from quite small to seriously large -- and are 10ga in thickness and shaped domey like mushrooms. They can be had in mild steel and stainless, and the mild steel is pretty easy to work, even cold (the secret is use a big enough hammer).


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Posted on Sat Sep 20, 2014 5:41 am
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Possibly suiting you, since you are looking at building a Coat of Plates, which is a latest 13th to 14th century piece of armour. Crossposted off ArmourArchive.org:

Quote:
Thinking about obvious stuff during downtime this [week], I began trying to figure helm tops and upper halves. Tried to estimate some quantities to the sort of thing I've been talking about more loosely and generally before.

Helm Top Cap, Interior-fit

If you're doing all of it, it starts with a flat sheet of steel to which you do all the bends. At the edge of the traced-out shape derived from how the Forehead plate and the Occiput plate came out when you riveted them together, you have the riveting flange which is bent down by a cold-raising technique (unless you'd rather work hot) over T-stake, creasing stake, or anvil point, to mate with the Forehead and Occiput. In a cylinder-topped helm like a Maciejowski, the flange has to bend 90 degrees. Lots of laps round the edge of the top cap to do that, from a bend line about 1/8" inside the trace-line you got tracing around the two upper-half plates. Or get the bend line in the same place on the top-cap by tracing around inside the upper plates.

It's okay to snip/saw one or two darts into the riveting flange on an interior-fit cap. They will be hidden, and hammer-bending the riveting flange will be easier. The obvious spot to cut a dart in an almond-shaped top-cap is at the almond's point where it nestles into a center-front crease, a later, advanced feature on a helm -- hardly earlier than mid-fourteenth century. This dart can be quite wide-angled. The spot I'd try cutting a second dart in an interior riveting flange is centerline back, creating two immense tabs from the riveted edge of the top cap, a big one portside and another starboard. Place the two rivets going nearest dead center rear distinctly to either side of this split, bracketing it. If absolutely necessary, maybe other darts somewhere in the right and left rear quarters of the top; I would resort to these only if running into real trouble. Even then I think I'd rather try and work the problem areas hot and fixum good. Too many darts making tabs around an interior-fit and you run into trouble with your rivets missing metal and only giving onto a dart. Weakens the top-cap and the top half. Use as few dart-snips as your skill allows.

So: the edge of the top cap has to bend downwards so many degrees to mate with the upper half's plates, and do that around a curve, too. How many degrees of bend do you have to make on that flange if the top cap has first been dished out of flat? Fewer. How much of a bend in the top cap can you make? Could you get it so the edges of the top cap are bent down ten degrees from flat? Twenty? More?

Certain small & deep styles of helm cap that bring a 5-plate helm to something approaching a sugarloaf stop only about 60-odd degrees of deviation downward from the flat, all round. Top caps like that tend also to make up an appreciable bit of the overall height of the top half, and it is well to have these caps, while yet small, still big enough to accept into their curvature some of the top of the fighter's skull. The upper halves of helms like this tend to show dishing, curving of the upper plates' profiles -- rather sugarloafed. Not showing a distinct zone where the riveting flanges are meeting and mating up there. Probably requires a different method of determining diameter for the top cap to stay out of fitting trouble -- cut, raise, try, and trim, fitting to a preassembled and rather low top half.

But most early/easy helm builders won't take it that far, but keep to a shallow curve, rounding the top cap to about 10-20 degrees below flat horizontal. Thus they subtract 10-20 degrees off the amount of circular, curving bend they need to hammer into the top cap for the riveting flange to mate with the upper half.

The Forehead & Occiput, the two upper-half plates.

Early buckethats, Maciejowski and other, featured cylindrical tops, no sloping to the plates. {ETA: were some of them interior-fits? That's very early.} By the late thirteenth, upper-half plates had taken on a sloped aspect, presenting glancing surfaces, somewhat lightening the weight of the helm overall, and with this tumblehome, this lean-in, subtracting the degrees of bend needed around that top cap just by sloping in and up. Well, how many degrees might we be talking about? Ten degrees? Fifteen? The forehead profile took to sloping quite a bit; the actual amount of slope there varied, leaning 30 or 40 degrees off the vertical -- or lesser amounts. But this degree of lean was confined to just this center-front part of the helm; to either side the departure from the vertical was much less, until we're about to that ten degrees again. And so, subtract another 10-15 degrees from the bend necessary at the top cap's flange.

And we're still not done with our tricks. The top edge of the upper half's plates, this too can be bent, either a pretty fair lot or just a little. Either was done; at one end of the helm era the Pembridges show a marked upper-half bend up there, whereas seventy years earlier, the Madeln A remarkably shows a 90 degree bend-over of these plates' upper edges onto an interior-fit cap, while the c. 1300 Bolzano and others show no bend at the upper half's upper edge for the rivet row. Instead, the top cap, exterior in these cases, is doing it all, that being the practical way with exterior-fit top caps.

{ETA, Those end up with a top cap bend that looks about like
/¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯\.}

But, a bend-over up there works for interior-fit topcaps. It could be a modest bend indeed. It too can be eased, early on in the assembly of the upper half, by cutting a little from the flange area of each plate where they meet on left and right sides. A file is the best tool for this; you're really just making some relief in the flange edge. Work these plates over a T stake already [assembled] together, until you've hammered in a bend of about 5 degrees. Could you do 10 degrees there? Maybe. Might take filing a rather broader-angled dart at the seam join.

So let's see where this puts us. A cylindrical helm upper half makes a flat top cap bend its flange over to a right angle, 90 degrees.

Dishing a top cap to bend its edges down to 10-20 degrees off the horizontal reduces the needed flange bend (around a curved line, remember) down to 80 or 70 degrees.

Sloping in the top-half plates takes another 10-15 degrees from that figure, bringing the needed bending of the top cap flange to 70 degrees, or even as little as 55 degrees bend.

Bending the top edge of the top half plates, assembled, another 10-15 degrees from the vertical brings the top cap flange bend to from 60 degrees to 40 degrees. 55 degrees being a typical middle figure.

Bending a top cap flange down 40 degrees and not having to wrestle it farther looks pretty easy.

All these variables may be included or left out in any combination for any plate-built style of helm, 5-plate, 4-plate, or 3-plate.

By the time you get to the bottom half of a 5-plate, the bottom half is child's play.


Page 2 of the same thread I drew my quote from. Shows picture of a 13th/14th century helm using a pipe cap and the kit and pattern it is made from, with the weldable pipe cap, pounded from circular into an oval, center stage in the pic. It's the second helm picture on the page, towards the bottom.

And Page 1

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Posted on Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:08 am
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[quote="Konstantin the Red"]
He can weld you mail of titanium: light, yes. Very costly too. Well, you could tell everybody it's mithril; it isn't going to rust. He can weld you stainless mail too.

Unfortunately, most of the rebated steel groups are not allowing titanium on authenticity grounds and I'm afraid I have to agree with them (but for different reasons). It holds up well enough against rattan but the localized stress produced by rebated weapons tends to cause brittle fracture. Spring stainless steel is actually much stronger in all the ways that make for good armor


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Posted on Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:00 am
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Hrrmm... hot working capability is a maybe, I have lots of wood, I have researched period bloomeries, and I have refined charcoal before and worked with the furnaces (though I can't do it long... 1100 degrees makes you see stars pretty quick, although I can maintain a 700 (ideal aluminum hotworking temp) easily, and without bothering with charcoal.) And given the points presented, I believe I will forego the coat of plates for the moment and save for a suit of plate armour... or that server cpu I have been wanting. Also, I will force my group to use fake swords... so much simpler.


Hauberk: 38" by 4' full sleeve now, made from riveted mild steel (not galvy)(maybe I can rivet/weld plates on later...)
Gambeson: Course linen over two layers of cotton over fine linen
I will look into helmets...


Something I did not mention earlier, since I am "lanky" I would like to take advantage of that and wear my maille under my (business) suit (discretely)... is this plausible?



http://www.homedepot.com/p/Weyerhaeuser-400-ft-16-5-Gauge-Rebar-Tie-Wire-05337/202094311 can be shipped to my area and is not aluminum or galvy (as far as I can tell... I will look into it) it seems inordinately light though...

Joined: March 27, 2002
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Posted on Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:52 am
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http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=172815

And still more general stuff about constructing helms. 7 pages to read.

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