Plier modification
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Joined: November 24, 2013
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Location: Pennslyvannia, U.S. of A.

Plier modification
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Posted on Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:46 pm
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Warning -- this may be a bit long-winded as I try to be complete.

I am returning to the hobby after a long time off. In my past fiddling I always just used cheapie basic pliers with the jaws wrapped in tape. I never did anything too intricate or small and used cheap self-made rings so tool marks did not matter too much.

This time around I would like to try to get off to a correct start and have ordered some anodized alumimun and some TRL scales to play with. With that in mind and having spent a week reading stuff it appears that plier modification may be worthwhile.

I bought a pair of cheap pliers to mess with in case it goes terribly wrong. They are needle nosed pliers and I plan to shorten the jaws to eliminate the teeth (may sand them a little as I saw in another post on here). I also intend to grind/file them into a curved shape. I am going to try to imbed the picture here but if it doesn't work you can see my intention at the following link:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/28301449@N02/11028854833/



Does this seem logical and worthwhile? I'm not afraid to butcher the tools I just to do it right the first time if possible (and it will be good practice in case I wish to do it again with a larger pair of pliers).

Opinions? Thoughts? Witty retorts?

thanks,

pa

Joined: November 25, 2010
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Location: Es-whoy-malth B.C.

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Posted on Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:39 pm
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I'd cut them closer to the handle personally, though I've never modified pliers beyond grinding teeth dull. what size links did you order? what are the measurements of the pliers you bought? how are you planning to cut off the bonus pliers tips you have bought?

Joined: May 07, 2008
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Location: Germany, Herxheim

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Posted on Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:42 pm
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Smile

-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper MAl Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Ps Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hip

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Joined: November 24, 2013
Posts: 31
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Location: Pennslyvannia, U.S. of A.

Plier mod
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Posted on Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:47 pm
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I ordered a bunch of different ring sizes (TRL sizes -- 16awg x 5/16 (stainless), 18awg x 1/4, 20awg x 1/8 (AA) and some others in those general wire/ring sizes). For these rings other than not marring the colored AA I doubt I really need to worry much about pliers but I figured I would do it while I wait for the order to ship and arrive.

The pliers are 7 inch pliers (~17.75 cm) but would end up around 6 inches (~15.25 cm) once shortened.

I haven't formed a good plan for shortening them. I will probably try sawing them first and then when I realize that won't work I will end up doing some grinding and filing (I will need to make sure I don't rush things and mess up the temper).

I won't be too surprised if the whole project gets out of control and ends up being a large waste of resources. That is the way my "plans" usually end up.

Thanks for the reply,

pa

Joined: November 24, 2013
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Location: Pennslyvannia, U.S. of A.

Plier mods
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Posted on Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:50 pm
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Zili -- posted while I was replying. So it looks like I am not quite right in my shaping. It looks like they should just be angled across the ends and curved in the side view? Is the plastic tubing to cushion them or make them fit your hands better?

pa

Joined: November 25, 2010
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Posted on Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:49 am
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the other thing is Zilis pliers don't have those cutting blades in the pinch which take your hands further from where all the action is and might even end up trimming your finger nails. If you think it's going to be a waste of time maybe you should trust your instincts.

Joined: May 07, 2008
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Location: Germany, Herxheim

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Posted on Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:12 am
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Cutting blades don't matter much - the following image shows some other pliers in rawcut state - and I used the same type of raw pliers, and cut them even shorter, so the whole toothed area vanished...


Despite that: The listed range of ring types and materials calls for different sets of pliers, of differing sizes and maybe also shapes. 16swg stainless probably needs some shortened-jaw pliers in the 6-7" class, while 20awg AA is better dealt with some smaller and finer-tipped pliers in the 5" class.

BTW: That diagonal-cut jaws seem to be one of my specialities, but they have a big advantage: Good leverage at a convenient wrist angle (weaving with edge), and good penetration of tight spots when in need for (weaving with the tip) - no pliers change is needed, just turning around.

EDIT: The plastic tubing serves two purposes: Thickening of grips, to make them more convenient, AND to cover the hinge area, to avoid blister-prone rub spots (important when weaving tough ring materials). Added to that, this gives an easy possibility to add personalized-strength (=weak) and easily adjustable (shift and/or bend as needed) reopener leaf springs to originally springless pliers, without need to weld or glue.

-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper MAl Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Ps Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hip

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Joined: November 24, 2013
Posts: 31
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Location: Pennslyvannia, U.S. of A.

Plier modification
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Posted on Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:43 am
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Thank you again to both of you for the advice and help. I am hoping I can get started with good habits to avoid problems later. Between the advice and pictures here and the comments in the "How do you hold your links" thread I have learned a lot already.

Zili -- The tubing is a very good idea for adding a spring, I would not have thought of that. I will also check into some other size plies for the AA. I may try these at first on the stainless to see what I want in the shape of the jaws when I upgrade to a larger (and probably better) pair of pliers.

djgm -- If I trust my instincts I won't have any fun. Razz And sometimes my bad ideas generate good ones. Honestly though I figure if I destroy some $3 pliers now it may save me some money later when I am thinking of altering more expensive pliers. I also have time to kill until the rings arrive . . .

In case either of you are interested I butchered one pair of them tonight. Here is a picture of them after some hacksaw time:


And here they are after some filing:




I will eventually smooth them some more but I want to make sure I am happy with the shape first. After looking closer at Zili's first picture I think I need to thin them more at the tips. I may wait to do that until I have some rings to play with because I do not want to weaken them too much and start having them flex.

thanks again,

pa

Joined: May 07, 2008
Posts: 3615
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Location: Germany, Herxheim

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Posted on Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:05 am
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For heavy weaving you do not NEED to thin them out, but once you reach somewhat tighter spots in a weave, you'll find, that thinning down is appropriate. Just look at further photos, to get an impression. The first image shows a set of four different-length, then yet more or less 'raw' cut pliers, to select two for a particular weaving job from; the second image shows them after much refinement, in more or less current state. You may note that I didn't only polish them in the meanwhile, but also rounded the jaw shape to be more half-ogival, with even a slight concave underside grind, that emulates a slight bent nose. And I rounded also all potentially blister-prone rub spots, as I'm used to grab my pliers sometimes far up, near the hinge, for some tough weaving jobs, where I cannot afford to put down pliers or work piece, but have to hold them both simultaneously.

BTW: The basis pliers I modified here are clones of Wubbers Classic (probably made in the same factory in Pakistan as these, on the same machines), just with differently cushioned grips. And these four are my standard pliers for 1.2mm (18swg) and thicker BA/AA/Copper/Silver work. The modified Knipex'es shown earlier in the thread are normally used for thicker Steel/Bronze/Titanium work. And I owe pliers sets for submillimeter work, in either hard or soft metal.




-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper MAl Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Ps Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hip

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Joined: September 24, 2012
Posts: 93
Submissions: 1
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

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Posted on Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:17 am
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Hi,

How did you cut the pliers?

Abrasive wheel or handsaw ?

BR
C

Joined: November 24, 2013
Posts: 31
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Location: Pennslyvannia, U.S. of A.

Plier modification
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Posted on Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:51 pm
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Zili -- Thanks again for being so clear and posting so many pictures. I think I will try the ones I have for intermediate sized work and maybe use them as a pattern if I need to make a set for larger use. I will probably buy a pair of Xuron 475's to try with the smaller rings as they seem popular.

Carolides -- I don't know if you are asking me or Zili, but I used a hand saw and them filed them to shape. I will probably end up doing more filing before I am done an will finish up with sanding to smooth them out to try and prevent tool marks.

This forum is such a good source of information I am lucky to have it. Thanks again for the help so far.

pa

Joined: December 22, 2007
Posts: 4610
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Location: Hampton, Virginia USA

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Posted on Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:23 pm
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Zili, these pictures and the information look suspiciously like "Tweezers and Tools - The Next NEXT Iteration" *hint hint* Very Happy

Or... you could sell or trade me some good pliers for working with larger stainless steel rings. Wink


"I am a leaf on the wind." ~ Wash
Lorraine's Chains
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Joined: July 25, 2008
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Posted on Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:19 pm
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The fun part is learning to do it yourself, at times you need pliers shaped just so and knowing how makes all the difference.
I tend to use the tools available.
Hacksaw, dremel with abrasive cutt off wheel, assorted files, drill press, bench grinder, and strop/sanding sticks give you a lot of options.

Joined: May 07, 2008
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Location: Germany, Herxheim

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Posted on Thu Nov 28, 2013 1:14 am
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What losthelm wrote, is the basic intention behind my publication of methods and possible pliers jaw shapes. Note that I am used NOT to sell my pliers, as I know how difficult it is, to find the right pliers for a particular person. So I have a couple of ready prepared, modified pliers around, and give my students what fits them best - especially handle-wise. But not having seen a receiver's hands, and how (s)he tends to hold them, is a hurdle that makes a real proper selection most times impossible. Thus I decided against selling.

About the next next iteration: It basically exists already, but on my facebook profile...

BTW: For modification I use normally a small cheap angle grinder with a thin cutting disk for shortening by doing the basic diagonal length cut, and then replacing the cutting by a thick grinding disk, for the raw shaping (that's an investment of sometimes less than 30 dollars, and roughly what I paid for mine, some disks included). The remainder of work and fine tuning is done with files, grit paper, and sometimes even the buffing wheel.

-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper MAl Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Ps Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hip

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Joined: December 22, 2007
Posts: 4610
Submissions: 106
Location: Hampton, Virginia USA

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Posted on Thu Nov 28, 2013 2:20 am
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I agree losthelm. I love doing things myself. And I have all the tools I need in the garage. I'm just being lazy. Razz

Zili, please publish your next next iteration here too? It would be a great addition. My personal favorites are the ones with the angled groove for the ring to fit in. I never would have thought of that myself.


"I am a leaf on the wind." ~ Wash
Lorraine's Chains
Gallery Submission Guidelines

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