Historically Accurate Designs
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Joined: December 02, 2010
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Historically Accurate Designs
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Posted on Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:30 pm
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Hi everyone!

I might be making a few authentic armor pieces in various styles for an organization putting together some documentaries soon. I've done a bit of research, and found that, mostly, there are only five or so patterns that got used in armor- Japanese 6 in 1 for Japan, obviously, Euro 4-1 was extremely common...

Anyway, my point is: I really want to get this right. Does anyone know anything else about authentic patterns? Also, when did Maille come to the Middle-East? Is "Persian" a modern affectation, or did those weaves actually come from Persia?

Thanks!

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Posted on Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:24 pm
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I believe the persian family of weaves is a "modern" invention, yes. I've got no clue as to when it came to the middle-east though, but I suspect, if they used chainmaille, that it would probably be European 4 in 1. There should be an image of an old etruscan chainmaille somewhere in the gallyry too.

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Posted on Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:39 pm
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There is no historical significance to the naming of "Persian" weaves. That was simply an effort to continue with the tradition of giving weave "families" historical names. Go to the Gallery Tag Index and click on History. It is in the last column under Location. You will see lots of interesting pictures there. Smile


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Posted on Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:51 pm
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there are a few few necklaces or jewlery pieces that might be jewlery, I would sugest starting hear, http://www.larsdatter.com/
Hoard finds, troves and museume pieces are rarely tagged with chainmail as a search term so it takes a bit of digging.

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Posted on Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:44 pm
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The Japanese actually used three different weaves historically Japanese 4 in 1, 6 in 1 and than a horizontal European 4 in 1. Here is an article I did on the subject and the photos are of actual period pieces. http://www.mailleartisans.org/articles/articledisplay.cgi?key=188466

Here is also a discussion on Japanese maille that got a little off track in the middle, but is very informative. http://www.mailleartisans.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=14933&highlight=japanese

Hope this helps. I was also allowed to examine and take detailed notes on a Japanese jacket that has hidden maille sewn into it.


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MailleCode V2.0 T5.3 R4.4 E0.0 Feur MFe.sBr Wg Cwb G.7-5.1 I3.1-11 N20.5 Pj Dcdjt Xa1w2 S08

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Posted on Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:51 am || Last edited by Bils on Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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I know it's not armour, but when doing some research I came across a genuine medieval Byzantine chain (yes, really). It's in the Metropolitan Museum collection, and here's a link...
http://www.metmuseum.org/Collections/search-the-collections/60020778

(fixed up the link)

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Posted on Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:42 am
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Bils wrote:
I know it's not armour, but when doing some research I came across a genuine medieval Byzantine chain (yes, really). It's in the Metropolitan Museum collection, and here's a link...
http://www.metmuseum.org/Collections/search-the-collections/60020778?rpp=20&pg=4&ao=on&ft=%2A&what=Chains&pos=73


Well aint that something, bookmarked! Thanks a bunch!!!!

Also, I despise websites that use non-standard URL's, LOL... I edited the link in my quote to use proper encoding Smile


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Joined: June 29, 2012
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Posted on Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:10 am
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Not only is that chain clearly and definitively Byzantine, it's GRADUATED. And some of the links are twisted.
I know it's pretty amazing being as so many books are so vague about the origins - I've been researching this for weeks actually, you wouldn't believe how many museum collections of jewellery and medieval portraiture I've been through. It might be something a lot of forum members are interested in but I'm new here so I'm not sure how best to bring it to folks' attention. Any suggestions?

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Posted on Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:37 pm
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I would love to find out what you have discovered along these lines. If you haven't already I would start a thread in the "Knitting Circle" and get some discussion going on your finding and than when articles are up I would submit an article of what you found.

Thanks for sharing this is great.

There is also a thread burried way deep that was trying to list locations that people can view maille items around the world. I may try to dig up that thread and add your new discovery to that list.


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MailleCode V2.0 T5.3 R4.4 E0.0 Feur MFe.sBr Wg Cwb G.7-5.1 I3.1-11 N20.5 Pj Dcdjt Xa1w2 S08

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Posted on Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:15 pm
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Guys, this seemed really interesting to me, considering I had heard that Persian weaves are modern inventions
http://www.mailleartisans.org/gallery/gallerydisplay.php?key=5732

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Posted on Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:43 pm
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Chen wrote:
Guys, this seemed really interesting to me, considering I had heard that Persian weaves are modern inventions
http://www.mailleartisans.org/gallery/gallerydisplay.php?key=5732

No, naming them "Persian" is recent. For all we know, all the weaves in our weaves library were made centuries ago. It's documentation, examples, and proof that we lack. lorenzo visited a museum and was kind enough to share what he found with us.


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Posted on Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:57 pm
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Well that's even more interesting to know.
I learn something new everyday Smile

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Posted on Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:54 am
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MusicMan wrote:


There is also a thread burried way deep that was trying to list locations that people can view maille items around the world. I may try to dig up that thread and add your new discovery to that list.


Woulkd be very interested to see that if you can find it, thank you.
I am ridiculously busy this week with a major medieval festival next weekend but next week sometime I will start a new thread with some details on my findings thus far, and if I have time I'll go through and collate findings by other folks on this site and others so that we have one definitive resource we can add to. But some links to those would be very nice if any of you have a little time to do the donkey work for me Smile

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Posted on Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:44 pm
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Here is the link to the "Where can I see maille around the world" thread I was talking about earlier. I added your discovery to the list and if you ever find more places just add it to the list.

http://www.mailleartisans.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=14975&highlight=museum


Once you stop learning, you stop living, so...
Ask questions.
Try new things.
Share what you know.

MailleCode V2.0 T5.3 R4.4 E0.0 Feur MFe.sBr Wg Cwb G.7-5.1 I3.1-11 N20.5 Pj Dcdjt Xa1w2 S08

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