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Joined: March 26, 2002
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Posted on Thu Oct 20, 2011 7:35 pm
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Jax25 wrote:
Now here's a question for you sculpturally minded peoples. I want to construct a maille stick of dynamite to be used as a prop. I'm thinking copper or bronze for the body of it...but I'm trying to figure out which weave and wire diameter I should use. I think I'd have to work in very large diameter wire to do something like CIR. Is there something that y'all think would work better and allow me to use say 14-16 ga wire?


Captive Inverted Round would be perfect for this application.

You could probably use the principles of the Staggered Sheet, or even just the Sheet version to connect multiple sticks together too, if you wanted.

14 - 16 gauge..

If by 14 gauge you mean .080", then a single captive CIR chain could be made with rings from a 3/8" mandrel. Two captives per cell, a 7/16" might work with copper, due to the low springback. Other metals with more springback would probably push the AR too high and make the stick a bit flexible.

And if by 16 gauge, you mean .062"ish, the single cell CIR would work with a 9/32" mandrel. Two captives per cell would work with a 5/16" mandrel, as long as the material pushes the AR past 5.5, i.e. not copper, but probably bronze. The three-cell version could be made with this wire size wound on a 3/8" mandrel.

And if you can't find an exact size to make it as tight as you want, you could try experimenting with different wire thicknesses of the captive rings.


Tell a mailler what ring sizes to use and they'll weave for a day. Teach them AR and they'll weave forever.
Chainmailbasket.com (2013-11-23)
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Joined: May 07, 2008
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Location: Germany, Herxheim

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Posted on Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:47 pm
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Jax: Here a photo of the flogger, when it was in progress (I finally found some on my HDD, unfortunately none in finished state - this one is already the best). The handle surely could have also dubbed as a Dynamite stick. I remember, that the round woven E6-1 sheet had sixteen ring rows, and was fairly rigid, and did not even need a filling, but was filled with some scrap fabric, nevertheless. The ring stats are known, as I made also a coaster for my coffee pot, that I continue to have, while the flogger was given away as birthday gift to a friend. Maybe I should retrieve the finished piece again, to make some GOOD photos for publication....

(click to enlarge)

-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper Mfe.s Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Pj Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hi

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Joined: May 08, 2010
Posts: 1154
Submissions: 11
Location: Chesapeake, VA, USA

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Posted on Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:25 pm
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Chainmailbasket_com wrote:
If by 14 gauge you mean .080", then a single captive CIR chain could be made with rings from a 3/8" mandrel. Two captives per cell, a 7/16" might work with copper, due to the low springback. Other metals with more springback would probably push the AR too high and make the stick a bit flexible.

And if by 16 gauge, you mean .062"ish, the single cell CIR would work with a 9/32" mandrel. Two captives per cell would work with a 5/16" mandrel, as long as the material pushes the AR past 5.5, i.e. not copper, but probably bronze. The three-cell version could be made with this wire size wound on a 3/8" mandrel.


Yes, those are indeed what I meant. I was at work when posting and was too lazy to go look up numerical wire diameters. Smile I guess I will have to do some playing and see which I like better. The first step is to get some copper wire in those sizes because I only keep the small stuff on hand.

Zili - what are the ring stats on your flogger handle?

Joined: May 07, 2008
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Submissions: 150
Location: Germany, Herxheim

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Posted on Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:28 pm
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Jax25 wrote:
Zili - what are the ring stats on your flogger handle?


As told in a previous post: 1.6*7.0mm mandrel, final ID 7.5mm, AR of 4.7 - I just again verified the stats with the coaster that was made from the same rings. The handle has a diameter of around 1 1/4"; I verified with the coaster that is 14 rows wide (the handle has 16 rows). BTW: I phoned the new owner of the flogger - I will get it back for making some photos soon, when I meet him, next weekend or so. Smile

An AR in the 4.5 to 5 range is very well suited for tight E6-1 sheets; 4.5 will be near to rigid, flat; if the sheet needs some bendability (e.g. for making tubes from), the AR must be higher.

-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper Mfe.s Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Pj Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hi

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Joined: May 08, 2010
Posts: 1154
Submissions: 11
Location: Chesapeake, VA, USA

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Posted on Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:45 pm
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Very cool. Thanks muchly!

Joined: March 26, 2002
Posts: 1541
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Location: Chainmailland, Chainmailia

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Posted on Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:26 am
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The European 6 in 1 would provide a smoother appearance.

Dragonscale is another option for making a maille tube. I've had success with AR's around 3.6 and 5.8 or slightly thereabove, provided both the small and large ring are of the same wire size.

Chess Set Knight
In this example, I used .048" (1.22mm/"18 gauge") 5/32" (3.97mm) and 1/4" (6.35mm): AR's of 3.6 and 5.9. These mandrel sizes might not work with softer materials that offer lower amounts of springback.

In .062" (1.57mm/"16 gauge") wire, I've had good results with 7/32" (5.56mm) and 11/32" (8.73mm) rings.

And with .080" (2.03mm/"14 gauge") wire, combinations of using mandrels around 9/32" (7.14mm) and 7/16" (11.11mm) would likely yield desirable results.


Tell a mailler what ring sizes to use and they'll weave for a day. Teach them AR and they'll weave forever.
Chainmailbasket.com (2013-11-23)
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Joined: May 07, 2008
Posts: 3612
Submissions: 150
Location: Germany, Herxheim

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Posted on Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:24 pm
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Update: I got the flogger back, and found the need to improve it a bit. The relatively high-AR tails had tended to get some of their end (and attachment point) rings slipping out of position. So I removed the tails, and added some lower-AR rings at either end before reattaching them to the handle. And I added a wrist band.

(Click to enlarge)

-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper Mfe.s Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Pj Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hi

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Joined: May 08, 2010
Posts: 1154
Submissions: 11
Location: Chesapeake, VA, USA

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Posted on Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:57 pm
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That is a pretty damn awesome looking flogger, Zili. Does the owner enjoy it? Smile

Joined: May 07, 2008
Posts: 3612
Submissions: 150
Location: Germany, Herxheim

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Posted on Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:08 pm
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Jax25 wrote:
That is a pretty damn awesome looking flogger, Zili. Does the owner enjoy it? Smile


Well, I noted in the Gallery submission, that he was at least pleased having got that gift. The added wristbad was made on his request to do so; so I assume it's used. Very Happy

-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper Mfe.s Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Pj Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hi

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Joined: May 08, 2010
Posts: 1154
Submissions: 11
Location: Chesapeake, VA, USA

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Posted on Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:44 pm
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Damn you Zili! Now you've made me want to make a flogger. Grrr! Smile

Joined: May 07, 2008
Posts: 3612
Submissions: 150
Location: Germany, Herxheim

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Posted on Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:08 pm
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Jax25 wrote:
Damn you Zili! Now you've made me want to make a flogger. Grrr! Smile

Well, my wife nearly ordered me to make another one for keeping it.

I propose to begin with weaving a couple meters/yards of chain...

-ZiLi- Wink


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper Mfe.s Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Pj Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hi

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Joined: May 08, 2010
Posts: 1154
Submissions: 11
Location: Chesapeake, VA, USA

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Posted on Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:01 pm
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Wouldn't you know that i don't have the right size mandrel to make that out of 1.6 mm wire? Hmmm. Oh well, I need to make a TRL order anyway. Time to remedy that! Smile Any thoughts on how that flogger would work in brass??

Joined: May 07, 2008
Posts: 3612
Submissions: 150
Location: Germany, Herxheim

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Posted on Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:41 pm
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Jax25 wrote:
Wouldn't you know that i don't have the right size mandrel to make that out of 1.6 mm wire? Hmmm. Oh well, I need to make a TRL order anyway. Time to remedy that! Smile Any thoughts on how that flogger would work in brass??


Well in BA it weighed in (estimated) at half a pound - so roughly triple that number. And it would work as well, just a bit more yellowish. Laughing

-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper Mfe.s Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Pj Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hi

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Joined: May 08, 2010
Posts: 1154
Submissions: 11
Location: Chesapeake, VA, USA

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Posted on Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:50 pm
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Well, as yellowish is what I'm going for, I'd say it might be perfect. Laughing I'm not sure that it will get much use, as I'm a long time singleton...but one never knows!!

Joined: March 3, 2002
Posts: 273
Submissions: 32
Location: Lucerne, Maine

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Posted on Sun Dec 25, 2011 6:49 am
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I've been working on another turtle, I think this is my fourth (though the second was just a copy of the first with a improvements to the innards). So far each is based on the same basic design using unconventional mailleable materials like washers and parts from bicycle chains (number three also had parts from a chainsaw chain as claws). Months ago I set the parts aside for turtle number 4 because I needed time to contemplate some aspect of the project, but now as I type this I can't remember what I was trying to figure out. I'll get some pics of turtle parts when I get home in the morning, maybe I'll have time to post them tomorrow night.

My current project is a piece of maille that sculpts a human Smile Its something I've been working on for far too long, setting it aside often to work on other maille. Its feeling close to completion so hopefully I'll soon be able to once again focus more time on my maille petting zoo.

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