sculpture party
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Joined: March 3, 2002
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Location: tres piedras, new mexico

sculpture party
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Posted on Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:01 pm
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okay, there are some of us who are interested in sculpture. i suspect that a few people were hoping for sculpture to win the theme contest as a motivation to try making something sculpty. perhaps people who have never tried it.

SCULPTURE, Y U NO WIN?

personally, i believe that people are intimidated by sculpture and until we do a little bit to break down that hesitation, sculpture won't be winning as the theme contest.

so, i will be making some sort of sculpture during the next 3 months. i have several to finish and i will do my best to start and finish at least one new one.

this is not a contest, there is no competition. if you just want to make something and show it off, great! if you want to make something and get stuck, ask for advice. i will be happy to advise. for whatever miracle reason another one of our favorite sculptors was in chat last night and seemed to think this was a decent idea. if we are lucky, they will also be advising people who are learning.

no need to hide your idea until completion. post how far you've gotten. post an arm or a bird beak that turned out particularly well, (or the alternative). post the 3 attempts that did not work right alongside the one that did.

we could all benefit from learning new things and sharing what we're learning as we learn it.


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

Joined: May 08, 2010
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Location: Chesapeake, VA, USA

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Posted on Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:12 pm
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Sounds like a great idea! I'm still hoping to "save" my ongoing project for a theme competition but I'll certainly make something sculpty...even if it's just finishing off my silly pen holder that has just been sitting unfinished on my desk.

Joined: August 25, 2010
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Posted on Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:40 pm
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Well I guess I should look into which weave I want to base my sculpture from. I know what I am doing just need to make the rings for it now.

I am game for some sculpture fun in my free time... but as posted my boss is taking maternity leave starting tomorrow leaving me in charge so it might not be as fast going as I hoped.

Joined: August 12, 2011
Posts: 139
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Location: Texas City TX

Re: sculpture party
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Posted on Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:41 pm
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sakredchao wrote:
okay, there are some of us who are interested in sculpture. i suspect that a few people were hoping for sculpture to win the theme contest as a motivation to try making something sculpty. perhaps people who have never tried it.

SCULPTURE, Y U NO WIN?

personally, i believe that people are intimidated by sculpture and until we do a little bit to break down that hesitation, sculpture won't be winning as the theme contest.

so, i will be making some sort of sculpture during the next 3 months. i have several to finish and i will do my best to start and finish at least one new one.

this is not a contest, there is no competition. if you just want to make something and show it off, great! if you want to make something and get stuck, ask for advice. i will be happy to advise. for whatever miracle reason another one of our favorite sculptors was in chat last night and seemed to think this was a decent idea. if we are lucky, they will also be advising people who are learning.

no need to hide your idea until completion. post how far you've gotten. post an arm or a bird beak that turned out particularly well, (or the alternative). post the 3 attempts that did not work right alongside the one that did.

we could all benefit from learning new things and sharing what we're learning as we learn it.


sakredchao- Would you have any suggestions for some one who wants to attempt there first, lets say pen holder. I was thinking something like dragonscale, but to be honest im not real sure on what qualities im looking for while picking a pattern for any type of free standing maille. Any advice?


Hex

Joined: August 30, 2008
Posts: 2818
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Location: Cambridge, ON, Canada

Re: sculpture party
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Posted on Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:14 pm
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Hex wrote:
Would you have any suggestions for some one who wants to attempt there first, lets say pen holder. I was thinking something like dragonscale, but to be honest im not real sure on what qualities im looking for while picking a pattern for any type of free standing maille. Any advice?


Sculpture requires three things:

Imagination
Patience
And a good selection of mandrels... As sculpture can be extremely AR sensitive.


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Joined: March 3, 2002
Posts: 4372
Submissions: 79
Location: tres piedras, new mexico

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Posted on Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:20 pm
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the dirty secret to sculpture is that any weave can be used.

-=any weave=-

it is about finding the right ring size to get the weave to do what you want.

dragonscale works just fine. it's got a relatively rigid structure, even at looser ARs, so the workable AR range is pretty wide.the way to test is to make a strip several rows wide and as big around as you need.

if the strip is too stiff or too loose to make the circle, you'll need to adjust the ring size(s) a little.

if it works out, build off the side until it is the right length.

remember, you are looking at what will be vertical rigidity.. vertical as it will stand on your desk.. if the circle is a little squishy but the vertical play is acceptable, go with it. when you add the bottom, you'll fix some of that and you can always add "trim" on the top to firm it up there. if it is absolutely necessary you can add another row of trim to tighten up the middle.

when making your test patch, remember to make it wide enough that you can feel a "middle" of the weave. edges are a little floppy. the patch needs to be large enough to get an accurate idea of how the weave will feel.

if you're making a pen holder, you should read the 3 basketry articles. one written by myself and two written by david austin. the difference between a basket and a penholder is insignificant.

the most important thing to remember is that the first project isn't always ideal. as you get more experience with the denser weaves you'll develop an intuitive feel for what will and will not work without extra trim.

if you have other questions, feel free to ask.


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

Joined: August 12, 2011
Posts: 139
Submissions: 0
Location: Texas City TX

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Posted on Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:30 pm
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Thanks appreciate the info. In your guys opinion is down to the /32 of an inch good enough for mandrel selection? I will probably be trying this with 16 or 18 awg wire because I have a pretty good surplus at those sizes. The only mandrels Im missing from my set is 1/32 and 3/32. I really do appreciate all the help... Coif Smiley


Hex

Joined: May 07, 2008
Posts: 3606
Submissions: 150
Location: Germany, Herxheim

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Posted on Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:50 pm
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Hex: If your mandrel stepping has a 'hole' just at the point where you'd need a mandrel, there's always the possibility to alternate rings made on the two neighboring mandrels, for fine-adjustment. While not having done much sculptural work yet, I'm experienced with AR sensitive linear weaves, and used this method several times for determining e.g. minimum (or maximum) ARs of weaves - this should be applicable for sculptural work as well. And there are a couple of further fine adjustment methods, like selection of cut type, or if sawcut is used, saw blade thickness.

Where's a need for a way, it sometimes needs to be bulldozed first...

-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper Mfe.s Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Pj Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hi

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Joined: August 12, 2011
Posts: 139
Submissions: 0
Location: Texas City TX

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Posted on Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:12 pm
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Well for my first attempts at anything I use low grade cuts such as angle cutters. This has been a common practice for me since I began learning maille for any new pattern or application just to see if I like it before I spend large amounts of time(or costly materials such as blades) on the new project. Would this be advisable for sculpture? To be honest I hadnt even thought of the cuts affecting it, but due to the AR sensitivity I can see why it would be an issue.

Zili- Im more than familiar with your AR attempts at your sanity, seems you pick projects to drive you nuts Razz


Hex

Joined: March 3, 2002
Posts: 4372
Submissions: 79
Location: tres piedras, new mexico

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Posted on Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:22 pm
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i started sculpting with an x/32 mandrel set. you will quickly see why you'd want x/64 or x/128, but at 18 and 16ga you should be just fine with x/32.


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

Joined: March 26, 2002
Posts: 1537
Submissions: 266
Location: Chainmailland, Chainmailia

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Posted on Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:38 pm
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While most weaves can be used for sculpture, some are far better for it.

Captive Inverted Round, and its staggered sheet version are, IMO, among the most versatile ones available. They are very forgiving, AR-wise, unlike, say Japanese 4in1/8in2 Cube, which has a very tight tolerance.

For sculpture, I enjoy using:
European 8 in 2
European 8 in 1
European 6 in 1
European 4 in 1
Dragonscale

Staggered Captive Inverted Round Sheet
Captive Inverted Round
Inverted Round
Turkish Round (must experiment more with this)

Japanese 4 in 1 Cube
Japanese 8 in 2 Cube
Japanese 8 in 2
Japanese 12 in 2

Full Persian 6 in 1
Full Persian Grizzly
Full Persian Gridlock
One Hour Less Sleep
Three Quarters Persian

Half Persian 3 Sheet 6 in 1
Three Quarters Persian Sheet

Byzantine Web Square Cube
Voodoo

I recently changed my weave chart at Chainmailbasket.com to specifically list what I consider a good range of "sculpture use aspect ratios" (as well as those for minimum and general use) for each weave.


I have a few sculptures on the go (including two more architectures), and I will be sure to share my experiences in this thread when the time comes.


Tell a mailler what ring sizes to use and they'll weave for a day. Teach them AR and they'll weave forever.
Chainmailbasket.com (2013-11-23)
152 + 13

Joined: August 12, 2011
Posts: 139
Submissions: 0
Location: Texas City TX

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Posted on Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:49 pm
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Appreciate the info guys, right now im stuck between DS or HP3 sheet 6. Neither one do I have much experience with, so it will be a learning process the whole way lol I will probably be starting on this once im done with a commission piece for a berk. I have a week till deadline but im only about a 1/3 done and steel need to do fitting. But ah the life of a busy freak Coif Smiley

I may look into a transfer punch set down to /128 and see what my costs on one will be. My problem is most of my projects are large and require loads of rings to complete, my concern being the length of a transfer punch and how many coils it will require. Any one know of an option that has the variability i need for this sculpture work, but has the mandrel length I require for my armor projects? Im just trying to keep from having multiple sets of mandrels lol


Hex

Joined: May 07, 2008
Posts: 3606
Submissions: 150
Location: Germany, Herxheim

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Posted on Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:58 pm
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Oh HP3S6 is a really fine weave - easily woven and fairly stiff at an AR of 4.6 or SLIGHTLY above, but it has a major downside that will make it unsuitable for some applications: It's NOT a rectangular, but trapezoidal weave. But else: I love it.

-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper Mfe.s Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Pj Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hi

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Joined: June 13, 2009
Posts: 490
Submissions: 153

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Posted on Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:18 pm
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This is really enlightening. You folks approach sculpture so differently than I do. I am fascinated.



Joined: March 3, 2002
Posts: 4372
Submissions: 79
Location: tres piedras, new mexico

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Posted on Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:57 pm
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derailed, enlighten us, how do you approach it?

edit: after looking through your gallery, i think i know your method, derailed. you make a tight weave. it looks like something. you finish it out.

this is how i started sculpting. this is where baskets came from. it is a good way to get a feel for tight weaves. great beginner tactic and i'm glad that it came up (whether or not it is your method).

personally, i prefer the challenge of conceptualizing a project and tackling it. it is much harder than making something and then figuring out what it is after a part of the sculpture is finished..

i'm still very interested in hearing you talk about your sculpting method.

=====

hex, trl offers x/128" and kodiak has a fantastic set that he sells where you can customize the length.


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

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