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Joined: March 3, 2002
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Location: tres piedras, new mexico

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Posted on Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:49 am
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i am looking at getting some business cards made out.. possibly a simple brochure at some point.. but, business cards withing the next 3 months, as i will be selling all summer..

when i go into santa fe jewelry supply or i go into rio grande and talk to the people behind the counters i hear a lot about how popular maille is becoming. they have maille displays and are selling things from people we know.. i think this is fantastic.

so, i was thinking of leaving a couple hundred cards at each place and see how they go. i suspect that they'll go pretty quickly..

so, a couple of things..
i want to put the url for the newbie page on the card.. did we ever get a copy of that locally so that it has a mailleartisans address? i never can find the link to that thing..

also.. i would be getting color cards printed up.. i want to use one of my pieces for the image. i am interested in promoting both MAIL and my sculpture work. i thought i would bring this up here to see if there were any objections to this.

when david austin made his brochure, he established a slight precedent of using MAIL literature for self promotion, in that he was promoting his work in the brochure. if we are going to continue with this, we should be aware that we are doing it.
http://www.mailleartisans.org/downloads/files/Maille_Brochure.pdf

should we encourage people who are handing out things linking them to MAIL to submit the content for public review?

thoughts?


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3.o is fixing everything.

Joined: January 29, 2011
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Posted on Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:15 am
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"should we encourage people who are handing out things linking them to MAIL to submit the content for public review? "

I would imagine that feedback from members of MAIL would be valuable to help ensure MAIL was being represented appropriately; not perhaps so much an imprimatur as a way of catching possible mistakes.

I think the cross-promotion is an excellent idea, and would benefit the maille artist as well as the MAIL site.

Joined: March 3, 2002
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Location: tres piedras, new mexico

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Posted on Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:57 pm
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my hesitation with this is MAIL has always had a stance of not promoting any specific artist.. i wouldn't want it to look like MAIL was trying to validate some maillers over others..

this is part of why you have never seen an official advertisement for any business on MAIL, except for cafepress.. (for our merchandise.)

i agree. i think it would be greatly beneficial for exposure.. with both buyers and sellers. i see a lot of sellers who could make a couple simple changes to their process and greatly increase their quality. i also see a lot of buyers who aren't sure what they are looking at..

....maybe we need a buyers page here on MAIL.. a simple instruction on how to look at maille. not getting into the money aspect.. but, how to identify quality work. how to look at cuts and closures. one of the frustrating things as a seller is that few people other than maillers have any idea what they are looking at.


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

Joined: April 02, 2008
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Location: Lincoln, NE

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Posted on Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:32 pm
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I like your idea for a buyers page. Give customers an idea of what to look for in quality maille products. This does however open up the door for people to use this site to find people to make things for them, which could lead to advertising. Just a thought... What might be better would be for some knowledgeable person to write an article on the topic and than have a place on business cards pointing people to this spot. Than it is not MAIL making the standard for buyers, but a members opinion that will guide people.

As for your question if people should submit their content to MAIL for 'approval' I am on the fence with this one. On the good side 'we' could make sure that all information is correct and accurate and also know who is advertising for MAIL. On the bad side it may scare people from promoting MAIL in this way. You also have the issue of what do you do when people do not submit their info to MAIL for 'approval'? Even if it is good and accurate do you still make them take it down/off their literature?

A better option may be for us to come up with a page that offers people information in many different lengths (business card size, web page size, flier size...)on MAIL that they can 'copy and paste' where they would like (business card/web page/poster at a booth) and not have to worry about getting the author's prior permission to use the material in their promotionals.

Just my thoughts on it.


Once you stop learning, you stop living, so...
Ask questions.
Try new things.
Share what you know.

MailleCode V2.0 T5.3 R4.4 E0.0 Feur MFe.sBr Wg Cwb G.7-5.1 I3.1-11 N20.5 Pj Dcdjt Xa1w2 S08

Joined: August 30, 2008
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Re: advertising
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Posted on Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:41 pm
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sakredchao wrote:
i want to put the url for the newbie page on the card.. did we ever get a copy of that locally so that it has a mailleartisans address? i never can find the link to that thing..


If you recall, last you and I spoke about this, we were discussing using a collaborative article as a 'newbie page'... This would allow it to be updated without needing someone (Myself or Blaise) to hard-modify code, to change it.
Since the Articles section hasn't been upgraded yet, this has yet to happen. Sad

The existing 'newbie' page is, you're quite correct, not hosted on our servers... To be honest, I can never remember where it is either. Coif LoL

I'm sure I can get some approximation of a local address done within the next three months, as always, "It's on the list"... But you'll need to remind me about it, I'm sure.



Joined: December 22, 2007
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Posted on Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:58 pm
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I have absolutely no problem with you or anyone else providing the link to MAIL on their business cards/brochures/etc. And I would prefer that it be the link to the home page of MAIL instead of a different or special page. That's not MAIL endorsing anyone, that's someone else endorsing MAIL. Requiring people to submit the business card/brochure/etc. beforehand for "approval" would be endorsement. That, I'm strongly against.

Using MAIL content that isn't yours, however, is a different story. For instance, using the MAIL logo and statement of what we are from the top of the page, or using pictures of others work that you find on MAIL, is a huge no-no without approval.

People can imply they are "endorsed" by MAIL the same way people can imply they are endorsed by anything official-sounding. But as long as we keep ads and links on MAIL in the appropriate places (Links page, profile pages, signatures, Trading Room), then we are doing what we can to ensure that we are not endorsing any one person or business over another person or business.


"I am a leaf on the wind." ~ Wash
Lorraine's Chains
Gallery Submission Guidelines

Joined: December 19, 2009
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Location: Chippewa Falls, Wis

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Posted on Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:50 pm
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i like the idea of a page for these advertising materials, having one central place for free content people can use freely with no special permission or anything like that. but if we do, do this then we need some sort of policy in place to be able to add new content to this page as well. because what works for bob, on his banner, might not work with sally on hers. the information that is free to use should be able to be formatted in different ways to work with every ones specific design.

what i am thinking of is a page, with the generic information on several different category's (eX: what is chain mail?, What to look for when buying chain mail?, History of chain Mail? ). we provide the raw text and maybe a hand full of royalty free images for them to use as they wish (ex: good closure, bad closure, mail logo, and some different weave images of the staple weaves, and so on). then once the user arranges and designs the free content we provided, it gets reviewed by either, a new post is made, say PR admin, or the article admin. just to ensure every thing is correct, IE spelling, no major information was left out, and so on. because after all we are not endorsing the person, just the information. And finally after everything is said and done and is all approved by the admin, or assistant, what they submitted should go into some kind of archive for other people to freely be-able to use as well.

one other thought i just had, maybe we should not call this advertising materials, but either something like "Learning Center materials", or "Public Relations Materials". we are not tiring to promote ourselves here, but just put out the correct information to peoples hands to inform them.

Joined: December 19, 2009
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Location: Chippewa Falls, Wis

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Posted on Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:56 pm
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lorraine wrote:
Requiring people to submit the business card/brochure/etc. beforehand for "approval" would be endorsement. That, I'm strongly against.



If we ask just to approve/deny the content we provided, and not the whole card/brochure/whatever then i do not see this as endorsing the person, what we are doing is ensuring they are spreading the CORRECT information, and not cutting and pasting, and only spreading half truths, or edited information.

Joined: December 22, 2007
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Posted on Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:36 pm
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Dravin wrote:
lorraine wrote:
Requiring people to submit the business card/brochure/etc. beforehand for "approval" would be endorsement. That, I'm strongly against.



If we ask just to approve/deny the content we provided, and not the whole card/brochure/whatever then i do not see this as endorsing the person, what we are doing is ensuring they are spreading the CORRECT information, and not cutting and pasting, and only spreading half truths, or edited information.

Providing the link to MAIL is not "content we provided". As I stated earlier, "Using MAIL content that isn't yours, however, is a different story..."

If someone produces a brochure, with their own pictures and text, MAIL has no business demanding official "approval" before they can pass that brochure out. We are not the chainmaille police and we shouldn't be acting like we are. We should be providing the best information we possibly can about chainmaille, here on MAIL.


"I am a leaf on the wind." ~ Wash
Lorraine's Chains
Gallery Submission Guidelines

Joined: January 29, 2011
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Posted on Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:37 pm
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The customer wouldn't need to know that MAIL approved the information about MAIL, or endorsed the mailler in any way; the mailler would just make sure that the information being put out there about MAIL is accurate. MAIL would not be demanding that the mailler do this, the request to check over the material on MAIL would come from the mailler.

Joined: December 22, 2007
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Posted on Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:47 pm
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Rognvald wrote:
The customer wouldn't need to know that MAIL approved the information about MAIL, or endorsed the mailler in any way; the mailler would just make sure that the information being put out there about MAIL is accurate. MAIL would not be demanding that the mailler do this, the request to check over the material on MAIL would come from the mailler.

Whether or not someone's customer knows the information is M.A.I.L.-approved is irrelevant (and far beyond our control).

Let's say someone produced a brochure with the following information:
-Pictures of their chainmaille with horrible closures.
-Pictures of their chainmaille labeled with weave names that are completely different from what M.A.I.L labels them as.
-Definitions of chainmaille terms that are completely different from those on M.A.I.L.
-A blurb that says "Maille Artisans International League is a site dedicated to chiropractors."

None of that is information I approve of. I don't want to see that misinformation spread around. It's incorrect. My instinct is to squash it. But M.A.I.L. does not have the "right of approval" over everything maille-related. I still want M.A.I.L.'s address listed on that brochure though. Then at least they can come here and get the correct information from the best damn chainmaille site eveh. Very Happy

We get to decide the content of M.A.I.L. We get to make it as correct, informative, and as inspiring as we possibly can. But we do not get to decide the maille-related content of other sites, books, brochures, business cards, shops, minds, etc.


"I am a leaf on the wind." ~ Wash
Lorraine's Chains
Gallery Submission Guidelines

Joined: January 21, 2004
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Posted on Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:36 pm
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lorraine wrote:
Whether or not someone's customer knows the information is M.A.I.L.-approved is irrelevant (and far beyond our control).

Let's say someone produced a brochure with the following information:
-Pictures of their chainmaille with horrible closures.
-Pictures of their chainmaille labeled with weave names that are completely different from what M.A.I.L labels them as.
-Definitions of chainmaille terms that are completely different from those on M.A.I.L.
-A blurb that says "Maille Artisans International League is a site dedicated to chiropractors."

None of that is information I approve of. I don't want to see that misinformation spread around. It's incorrect. My instinct is to squash it. But M.A.I.L. does not have the "right of approval" over everything maille-related. I still want M.A.I.L.'s address listed on that brochure though. Then at least they can come here and get the correct information from the best damn chainmaille site eveh. Very Happy

We get to decide the content of M.A.I.L. We get to make it as correct, informative, and as inspiring as we possibly can. But we do not get to decide the maille-related content of other sites, books, brochures, business cards, shops, minds, etc.


Or the person will look at the brochure and conclude that MAIL is run by idiots who don't know what the hell they're talking about.

MAIL controls how it presents itself, and part of that is being aware of how it's presented by others. I wouldn't want my personal name attached to a poorly-made project; nor would I want the name of an organization I'm a member of, on the card of (and giving tacit support to) someone who makes crap product.

I'd give pause before getting too eager about putting MAIL's logo on anything and everything without oversight.

-phong



-- CGMaille tutorials now hosted here at MAIL! --

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Posted on Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:56 pm
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phong, thank you for clarifying exactly the ideas I was trying to express.

Joined: December 22, 2007
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Posted on Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:21 am
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Phong wrote:
Or the person will look at the brochure and conclude that MAIL is run by idiots who don't know what the hell they're talking about.

MAIL controls how it presents itself, and part of that is being aware of how it's presented by others. I wouldn't want my personal name attached to a poorly-made project; nor would I want the name of an organization I'm a member of, on the card of (and giving tacit support to) someone who makes crap product.

I'd give pause before getting too eager about putting MAIL's logo on anything and everything without oversight.

-phong

Phong, nowhere did I state that I think we should allow MAIL's content, including the logo to be used in any way, by anyone other than MAIL. In fact, I stated exactly the opposite...
lorraine wrote:
Using MAIL content that isn't yours, however, is a different story. For instance, using the MAIL logo and statement of what we are from the top of the page, or using pictures of others work that you find on MAIL, is a huge no-no without approval.


I'm talking about the url address to the MAIL website. We have no business telling people they can't refer to MAIL as a reference.


"I am a leaf on the wind." ~ Wash
Lorraine's Chains
Gallery Submission Guidelines

Joined: January 21, 2004
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Posted on Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:37 am
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I would still distinguish between 'telling people about MAIL' and 'putting MAIL's info on their own promotional material'. Whether it's intended or not, doing so uses MAIL to bolster their own business, and can easily give the impression that MAIL supports them in it.

I'd still be far more comfortable having people use MAIL-created material to hand out.

-phong



-- CGMaille tutorials now hosted here at MAIL! --

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