Weave Tags
View previous topic | View next topic >
Post new topic Reply to topic
M.A.I.L. Forum Index -> Weaves Discussion
   
Author Message

Joined: July 21, 2009
Posts: 47
Submissions: 7
Location: Dresden, Germany

Reply with quote
Posted on Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:09 am
Link to Post: Link to Post

@sacredchao: thanx dude. That was exactly what i meant and it's kinda soothin my mind - i'm tryin to put in words my opinion for over half an hour now without gettin it the way i want it, but you did it.

I know that it's not nice to label anyone as an idiot. All i wanted is democracy. I want a base of weaves, not only like the seperation of /weaves/ but into basic weaves and it's variants -- and i don't give a damn frell bout variants names as long as they don't change the weave in its basic (like rondo does in helm maybe - i mixed a 3-row-conundrum with rondo for a bracelet, but still got no name for it: it's just my bracelet made from sum helm variants and i like it: that's why i did it)

I don't care for the existance of variants as long as they don't bother me. They're side-work for me that i might come along, but not the solutions for my mail-probs.

AND: I'm a rookie and there are ppl round here, whoa, try to keep in touch with what they do in the mail-challenges within the forum (tryin would keep "idiots" from posting "new" weaves to the lib) - got what i mean?

Joined: May 07, 2008
Posts: 3615
Submissions: 150
Location: Germany, Herxheim

Reply with quote
Posted on Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:55 am
Link to Post: Link to Post

Well, there were times when the weave library was handled as restrictive as it should have been, and times when it wasn't - And so there IS, undeniably, some 'variant garbage' in the database, that wouldn't have entered the database under current regulations.

But as Chao wrote: tagging will solve many problems, once we went completely through the library, and provide the search interface able to exclude weaves from the result list that are tagged e.g. as 'variant', or 'modification' or so. I trust in DL's abilities to program that interface.

And btw: Even I am 'guilty' to have weaves amongst my personal submissions, that I wouldn't dare to submit nowadays, but shall find their place in the variants somewhen...

-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper Mfe.s Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Pj Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hi

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Joined: July 21, 2009
Posts: 47
Submissions: 7
Location: Dresden, Germany

Reply with quote
Posted on Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:16 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

hm k, sorry, didnt want to piss off anyone. This site/its lib is just one of my fave sites and it happened to me yet that a friend said "hey, thanx for showing me cgmaille as it's less chaotic" - it sumwhat annoyed me to hear this. As well as the fact that i was startin to agree his opinion.

Joined: August 30, 2008
Posts: 2848
Submissions: 20
Location: Cambridge, ON, Canada

Reply with quote
Posted on Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:47 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

Luziviech wrote:
hm k, sorry, didnt want to piss off anyone. This site/its lib is just one of my fave sites and it happened to me yet that a friend said "hey, thanx for showing me cgmaille as it's less chaotic" - it sumwhat annoyed me to hear this. As well as the fact that i was startin to agree his opinion.


The important difference here is:
MAIL is a community, and library of information.
CGMaille is more of a 'digital book'


Useful Links
Site Help: [ BBCode Help | Weave AR/Ring Size Popup | Login Issues ]
Weave AR Search is back: Try it out!

Joined: July 21, 2009
Posts: 47
Submissions: 7
Location: Dresden, Germany

Reply with quote
Posted on Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:20 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

i surely do know that, but cgmail is less chaotic due to lack of mass-uploads of variants and when you're a (steady) learner/beginner, less chaos is better as you get the basics more easily. (And i guess, that's most probably the intention of the local lib: to get an overview and learn howto do it by the linked tutorials).

Joined: August 30, 2008
Posts: 2848
Submissions: 20
Location: Cambridge, ON, Canada

Reply with quote
Posted on Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:37 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

Luziviech wrote:
when you're a (steady) learner/beginner, less chaos is better as you get the basics more easily.


See: http://www.mailleartisans.org/begin/
And: http://www.mailleartisans.org/weaves/weavelist.php?tags=Beginner


Useful Links
Site Help: [ BBCode Help | Weave AR/Ring Size Popup | Login Issues ]
Weave AR Search is back: Try it out!

Joined: January 21, 2004
Posts: 1051
Submissions: 73

Reply with quote
Posted on Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:02 am
Link to Post: Link to Post

Daemon_Lotos wrote:
The important difference here is:
MAIL is a community, and library of information.
CGMaille is more of a 'digital book'


^ This. CGMaille is also much more limited in scope and magnitude, and at this point, is stagnant. It's easier to refine a limited amount of content than an ever-expanding library.

-phong



-- CGMaille tutorials now hosted here at MAIL! --

Joined: July 23, 2006
Posts: 2181
Submissions: 95
Location: Standish, Michigan, USA

Reply with quote
Posted on Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:44 am
Link to Post: Link to Post

Woohoo!! Phase one of tagging appears to be complete Very Happy! I need to double check to make sure I haven't missed tagging anything, but I don't think I have. Now on to phase two: sub-families.


Insistence is futile.

We are the Quartz, lower your shovels and surrender your rocks. We will add your gemological and mineralogical distinctiveness to our own. You will adapt to service us. Resistance is rutile.

Deviant Art
Handmaden Designs LLC Facebook
Handmade Artists Shop
https://twitter.com/HandmadenDesign
http://pinterest.com/handmadendesign/
http://handmadendesigns.com

Joined: April 02, 2008
Posts: 2083
Submissions: 36
Location: Lincoln, NE

Reply with quote
Posted on Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:11 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

Nárrína wrote:
Woohoo!! Phase one of tagging appears to be complete Very Happy! I need to double check to make sure I haven't missed tagging anything, but I don't think I have. Now on to phase two: sub-families.


Congrats!!!! You deserve a plate of cookies. Come and collect any time!


Once you stop learning, you stop living, so...
Ask questions.
Try new things.
Share what you know.

MailleCode V2.0 T5.3 R4.4 E0.0 Feur MFe.sBr Wg Cwb G.7-5.1 I3.1-11 N20.5 Pj Dcdjt Xa1w2 S08

Joined: August 30, 2010
Posts: 38
Submissions: 4

Reply with quote
Posted on Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:04 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

so, will the band and chains be united, or does it stand as is?

Haven't you gotten there yet, or why isn't [weave=vipera berus] a berus weave, and why isn't [weave=shaggy loops] a shaggy weave, or am I in need of an explanation of those tags?

Regarding band and chains - if they are to stay, - are they to differ if the units are stacked vs side by side?

Joined: July 23, 2006
Posts: 2181
Submissions: 95
Location: Standish, Michigan, USA

Reply with quote
Posted on Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:32 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

Karpeth wrote:

Haven't you gotten there yet, or why isn't [weave=vipera berus] a berus weave, and why isn't [weave=shaggy loops] a shaggy weave, or am I in need of an explanation of those tags?


They are, what happened is I was clicking on the tags too quickly and it didn't register that I'd clicked on them.

Karpeth wrote:
so, will the band and chains be united, or does it stand as is?.....

Regarding band and chains - if they are to stay, - are they to differ if the units are stacked vs side by side?


They are staying as is, but the band tag is being used in conjunction with either chain or sheet. In most cases, bands are extra wide chains, but in some they are thinner strips of what would otherwise be a sheet weave.


Insistence is futile.

We are the Quartz, lower your shovels and surrender your rocks. We will add your gemological and mineralogical distinctiveness to our own. You will adapt to service us. Resistance is rutile.

Deviant Art
Handmaden Designs LLC Facebook
Handmade Artists Shop
https://twitter.com/HandmadenDesign
http://pinterest.com/handmadendesign/
http://handmadendesigns.com

Joined: October 02, 2003
Posts: 118
Submissions: 16
Location: Binghamton, NY

Reply with quote
Posted on Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:35 am
Link to Post: Link to Post

[For the following post I hereby take off my BoD hat and set it next to me, to be picked up again after I hit "submit", and make this post entirely as a concerned longtime member of M.A.I.L.]

Today I went to the weave library to try to find an unknown weave that is similar to Mobius (as is pictured here: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7141/6647819737_b68d703ff1_m.jpg). Since I usually make things up or go with weaves I already know by rote, I hadn't seen the new system since it went live a few months ago.
I was surprised to see a bunch of tags there that were, let's say, not what the established weave theory had proposed in the 9 years I've been a member of this site. So, as a natural course of action, I went to the Glossary to learn what these new terms meant. Some were familiar, so I only searched for definitions for those that I didn't know for sure from definitions in previous theory articles: Mage, Alpha, Modification, Variant, Helm, Inverted, Rhino, Band, Radial, Berus, Biased, Mobized, NSR, Progression, Spiked, and Unbalanced. Of the above, I'm pretty sure what you mean by Modification, Variant, Inverted, Mobiused[!], Band, Biased, and Unbalanced, but nevertheless wanted to make sure we were on the same page.

Lo and behold, not a single word in that list is in the glossary, or has been given an official definition in any of your posts on the subject that I could find, with the exception of you quoting the Weaves Policy for Variant/Modification. Now, this is an iterative thing, I know, but for the love of [your deity of choice], would you please put something on paper for what they mean so we know how to search by any method other than educated guessing?

Another surprising thing is that from the multitude of posts and articles from Tesserex, David Austin, Drax, ElementalDragon, Phong, sakredchao, and other respected elders who have done years worth of theory work, it appears that around zero percent of their aggregate work has been either referenced or built upon by your system, based on the few terse posts you make in the theory discussions. They have been working on this very problem since before you first picked up a pair of pliers, and it seems to me that whatever differences you may have with their methods, you're not only throwing out the baby with the bathwater, you're also throwing the entire old-fashioned cast iron bathtub out the window and making sure it lands with the decorative clawed foot on top of the recently ejected baby, killing it in a horrifically gruesome and bloody mess. One might think that before going into a complete reorganization project, the new manager might do their homework and not redo everything from scratch, all the while maintaining what appears to be the position of "this is my way, even though it looks like the majority of the educated userbase is against it, and you all can just sit there and wait for my verdict because you can't do a thing about it."
Since I haven't been terribly active in this forum in the last year (or any time before that to be honest), please do prove me wrong and show me posts where you listened to arguments or criticism and then either refined or changed your methods with the new input. I didn't pore over every post you've made, because that much green makes my eyes hurt, but I did take a look at the beginning and ends of the longer threads about theory that were raging in here last summer.

Now, you might be thinking "why didn't you say things last summer?". This is a valid point. However, I will say that every time I went to post in those threads, what I wanted to say had already been explained in greater detail by other members, and I'm not one for +1 posts that bring no new content to the discussion. If I thought that more people making a valid point would somehow make it more likely to be listed to, then I may have posted, but I was under the impression that someone who is working on a subject will read through relevant arguments thoroughly and judge based on merits and not loudness.

Oh, and in regards to that [!] above, the base word is "Mobius", and the commonly accepted methods of converting a noun to a verb in the English language are to either add "-ize", "-ify", possibly others, or leave the base word alone, and then add "ed" to the end for the past tense. Since the thing we're doing is making a weave like a Mobius and not a Mob, the base word must remain complete and any change appended to it, like "Mobiusized", "Mobiusified", or "Mobiused". "Mobized" ipso facto is not valid. Funnily enough, "Mobified" is in the glossary. Go figure, a different word for one of the tags is defined, yet none of the tags actually in use are. Any lexically valid interpretation of the word "Mobized" would gather that the weave was somehow assimilated into either an unruly large gathering of people or an organized crime syndicate.


For anyone who read the above post in its entirety and understand what I am saying, I thank you, as you are in educated minority of M.A.I.L. and as such are probably not the intended target of the rant.
Anyone who wishes to argue against points brought up in this post will need to provide actual reasoning for their position for me to further respond. Thank you.


Maille Code V2.0 T5.9 R5.1 En.o Fcir MFe.s Wgm$ Cab$w G0.2-2.0 I1.2-14.1 N(many).~25 Pdjs Dacdejst Xg(many)t1w5 S03
deviantArt

Joined: May 07, 2008
Posts: 3615
Submissions: 150
Location: Germany, Herxheim

Reply with quote
Posted on Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:06 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

[rant] Just a note on 'Moebius', and its multitude of mutations, adding to shake's rant. Let me (as non-native English writer!) teach some grammar basics: 'Moebius' is a real person's name, so all alterations like building an adjective or verb upon MUST NOT change the basic name - so neither omitting the 'e' of Moebius or even more letters is allowed, nor replacing the 's' by a 'z'.

The valid variations include moebiused or moebiusing, and maybe some more. But moebiuzing, or mobifying, or even more ridiculous alterations are simply invalid.

I guess we should mobilize the crowd to ban that mobbing - the poor man would spin in his grave if he knew what is done to his name here... [/rant]

-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper Mfe.s Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Pj Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hi

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Joined: April 02, 2008
Posts: 2083
Submissions: 36
Location: Lincoln, NE

Reply with quote
Posted on Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:43 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

CShake - I know this doesn't help you right now, but I have been trying on working on definitions for the tags as well as a weave theory 'basics' articles. Because of work they have gone to the back burner. I will with renewed effort try to get what I have published, if only to have it yanked after the article is fully completed.

http://chainsmith.wetpaint.com/page/Weave+Theory+-+Discussions%2C+Terminology...
Here is a link to the "Maille Book Project" where I have been trying to keep my thoughts and rough drafts. (good place because I seem to be the only one working on it anymore so provides a good testing grounds for me) Feel free to look it over and give comments or insights.

The possible theory article is the top part, still need some pictures, and the bottom part gives at least a partial list of tags and "my" definitions of what they mean.


Once you stop learning, you stop living, so...
Ask questions.
Try new things.
Share what you know.

MailleCode V2.0 T5.3 R4.4 E0.0 Feur MFe.sBr Wg Cwb G.7-5.1 I3.1-11 N20.5 Pj Dcdjt Xa1w2 S08

Joined: May 08, 2010
Posts: 1155
Submissions: 11
Location: Chesapeake, VA, USA

Reply with quote
Posted on Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:08 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

Oy...all the discussion of theory makes my brains hurt...but I must admit that I'm not 100% clear on the difference between a modification and a variation myself.

Post new topic Reply to topic
Jump to:  
Page 7 of 9. Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
All times are GMT. The time now is Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:30 pm
M.A.I.L. Forum Index -> Weaves Discussion
Display posts from previous: