Weave Theory - Ring Interactions (Connections)
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 Weave Theory - Ring Interactions (Connections) Posted on Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:14 am Link to Post: I have been trying my best to understand, study, digest, communicate about weave theory and I have been currently engrossed with different interactions or how rings connect. Below I have tried to boil everything down to a couple of simple sentences that even a beginner can hopefully understand. (This is the first phase of my study.) Please feel free to correct, disagree, add or just confirm that I have truly gone crazy. I feel there are five major types of ring interactions, or the way rings are connected: Through the Eye, Around the Eye, Mobius, Single Ring and Orbital. Here we will not only try to give you a definition, but a picture of the connection. Through the Eye (TTE) - Inserting a new ring through the intersecting points, or eye, of two rings. Around the Eye (ATE) - Inserting a ring that goes around the eye of two intersecting rings. Usually used in reference to Persian weaves. Mobuis - A ring interaction where every ring goes through the center of every other ring and is placed on top of the previous ring, creating a swirling ball like structure. Single Ring - An interaction where you are inserting a ring(s) directly into another and there is no other real interlocking with any other ring as in 'Through the Eye' or 'Around the Eye' connections . Commonly found in Japanese weaves. Orbital - An interaction where the ring is not connected to a ring(s), but is trapped between them and floats freely within the weave. Once you stop learning, you stop living, so... Ask questions. Try new things. Share what you know. MailleCode V2.0 T5.3 R4.4 E0.0 Feur MFe.sBr Wg Cwb G.7-5.1 I3.1-11 N20.5 Pj Dcdjt Xa1w2 S08

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 Posted on Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:21 am Link to Post: It's a decent attempt, but incomplete in some areas and incorrect in others. The mobius connection is actually a specific case of a repeated Through Eye connection. The mobius form is obtained by laying each ring in a specific orientation with respect to the other rings after making that TE connection. When I was in Italy last year I did a fair bit of thinking and writing about weave types and ring interactions. I never finished it, and so never posted it, but the part about ring interactions is a reasonably self-contained topic. So here's my go at it. Descriptions of Characteristic Ring Interactions Eye - a space formed by two rings that overlap and are non-concentric; the 2 rings do not necessarily have to intersect each other. Through Eye - a ring connection in which two rings form an Eye, and a third ring passes directly through that eye. The eye-forming rings may be held in place by the third ring, or by other rings. Around Eye - a ring connection in which two rings form an Eye, and a third ring passes around, but not through that eye. The third ring must pass through both the eye-forming rings, but not through the eye itself. The eye-forming rings may be held at least partially in place by the third ring, but are structurally held in place by other rings. Japanese - a ring connection characterized by no eyes, and rings are orthogonal. Combinations of X-, Y- and Z-plane axes may be used to extend the connections in two or three dimensions. Can be done with one or more rings on each plane. Invert - a ring connection characterized by no eyes, and rings are not orthogonal. Requires two or more rings on at least one plane; these rings are not parallel, and are spread apart. The spreading allows the weave to be continued into a sheet or tube. Orbital/Captive - ancillary connections, not often used as integral connections. Nonstandard rings - using objects of other geometries to facilitate other aesthetic structural possibilities. Eh, not a terrible go, but probably not perfect. -phong -- CGMaille tutorials now hosted here at MAIL! --
djgm

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 simple theory Posted on Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:43 am || Last edited by djgm on Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:31 am; edited 2 times in total Link to Post: try this theres your basic chain, E, and P tools but everything beyond those three basic elements offers no extra strength to the mesh and is not a part of the structure of the chain. i don't mean this to be some slight comment on the lack of variety out there but rather a basis for understanding that chain maille theory like so many understanding works by the combining of the three elements that the universe is built on.

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Re: simple theory
Posted on Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:45 am
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 djgm wrote: try this theres your basic chain, E, and P tools but everything beyond those three basic elements offers no extra strength to the mesh and is thus is not a part of the structure of the chain.

Ooooooooor we could try something useful.

-phong

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 Posted on Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:49 am Link to Post: like making the stuff and not talking about it eh?

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Posted on Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:38 pm
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 djgm wrote: like making the stuff and not talking about it eh?

djgm: We understand that not evereyone is interested in discussing Weave Theory and Ring Interaction, but please allow people that do want to discuss it to be free to do so.

Phong: Don't be so snarky.

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 Posted on Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:24 pm Link to Post: Phong - That makes a lot of sense. I really like your around the eye definition. I have always been a little fuzzy on the "Inverted" idea. But your description does help out. I understand your thinking on the 'mobius' connection that I had, but how than would you describe a spiral connection? (which I initially lumped in that category, but am having second and third thoughts) In my mind it is not just a simple TE connection as in JPL or spiral 4-1. or is it?!? *goes off to think*---*ouch* Once you stop learning, you stop living, so... Ask questions. Try new things. Share what you know. MailleCode V2.0 T5.3 R4.4 E0.0 Feur MFe.sBr Wg Cwb G.7-5.1 I3.1-11 N20.5 Pj Dcdjt Xa1w2 S08

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Posted on Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:23 pm
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 MusicMan wrote: I understand your thinking on the 'mobius' connection that I had, but how than would you describe a spiral connection? (which I initially lumped in that category, but am having second and third thoughts) In my mind it is not just a simple TE connection as in JPL or spiral 4-1. or is it?!?

Correct, spiral connections are TE (with an unusually big [dilated?] eye). The spiral comes about because of the particular arrangement of the rings around that TE connection. Same with JPL and mobius. Mobius keeps the TE's centered around one point; spiral stretches the connections along one axis; JPL locks the connections in place due to the specific AR used.

-phong

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 Posted on Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:58 pm Link to Post: Phong thank you so much for your patience and descriptions. Would you mind if I used some of your definitions in a handout I am making? Once you stop learning, you stop living, so... Ask questions. Try new things. Share what you know. MailleCode V2.0 T5.3 R4.4 E0.0 Feur MFe.sBr Wg Cwb G.7-5.1 I3.1-11 N20.5 Pj Dcdjt Xa1w2 S08
Zlosk

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 Posted on Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:23 pm Link to Post: Phong, you forgot (or perhaps intentionally left out) the term 'cousin', originally coined by Spider in the thread http://www.mailleartisans.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=10244&highlight=cousin. I define it as: Cousin - a ring that does not go through the ring with which it is in contact; however, the ring to ring contact is required for the weave structure. Cousin interaction is what makes JPL3 different than spiral. I would consider captives and orbitals to be special cases of cousins. IGP (Irregular Grid Painter) Links: Home | FAQ | Downloads

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 Posted on Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:02 pm Link to Post: I didn't remember the 'cousin' term, but probably would've grouped it in with orbitals and captives, since there aren't any direct connections being made. -phong -- CGMaille tutorials now hosted here at MAIL! --

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Posted on Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:35 pm
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 Phong wrote: I didn't remember the 'cousin' term, but probably would've grouped it in with orbitals and captives, since there aren't any direct connections being made. -phong

But if I am understanding what Spider is saying in the thread Zlosk posted it is actually part of the weave just further down the line. So if you look at your definition it wouldn't fall into the definition of Orbitals and Captives...
 Phong wrote: Orbital/Captive - ancillary connections, not often used as integral connections.

... because it is an integral connection to the chain, but just not that section of it. Unless of course you were looking at a 4 ring segment of JPL.

Once you stop learning, you stop living, so...
Ask questions.
Try new things.
Share what you know.

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Posted on Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:44 pm
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MusicMan wrote:
But if I am understanding what Spider is saying in the thread Zlosk posted it is actually part of the weave just further down the line. So if you look at your definition it wouldn't fall into the definition of Orbitals and Captives...
 Phong wrote: Orbital/Captive - ancillary connections, not often used as integral connections.

... because it is an integral connection to the chain, but just not that section of it. Unless of course you were looking at a 4 ring segment of JPL.

I'd put it with Orbitals and Captives as a sort of "Misc & Asst" category. A 'cousin' ring snugs up against the adjacent ring, but doesn't go through it. (Similar to adjacent rings in a row of HP4-1) It might be necessary to hold the structure together (in the specific case of JPL) but still isn't a connection.

I'd also hesitate to use a concept that is present in one weave (JPL) in a broader categorization. How many other weaves use 'cousin' rings as necessary structural components? Looking at it from a purely construction viewpoint, not an aesthetic or design viewpoint. JPL is often trotted out as a "yeah, but what about..." example, but really it's enough of an oddball entity to be asterisked as an exception rather than a rule.

-phong

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 Posted on Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:03 pm Link to Post: I can understand your hesitation in calling it a connection... an interaction perhaps? Unless I misunderstood your reply didn't you already answer the question you asked? Your question was: How many other weaves use 'cousin' rings as necessary structural components? If I am reading correctly in the first paragraph of your post you were saying "A 'cousin' ring snugs up against the adjacent ring, but doesn't go through it. (Similar to adjacent rings in a row of HP4-1) " So wouldn't that be true of the other HP?-1 as well? The rings that come prior to it are snugged up against it, don't go through it, but help to keep the structure similar to JPL. so than JPL wouldn't be the exception to the rule than because the HP weaves would be included in there. Unless you are saying that the 'cousin' ring in JPL helps give it the twist where in the HP weaves it is a flat weave so does not lock the rings in a different/new structure. Thus making the 'cousin' rings of the HP not necessary structural components as far as keeping a certain shape as it does in the JPL. Is that your point in saying JPL is the exception. Sorry if I am missing something basic I have always been poor at weave theory and I am trying to improve my understanding. Once you stop learning, you stop living, so... Ask questions. Try new things. Share what you know. MailleCode V2.0 T5.3 R4.4 E0.0 Feur MFe.sBr Wg Cwb G.7-5.1 I3.1-11 N20.5 Pj Dcdjt Xa1w2 S08

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 Posted on Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:34 pm Link to Post: Phong I was looking back at your initial list and I have a question about the Nonstandard Rings. Are you saying that the objects of other geometries are non-circular (torus)? and used to weave. If that is the case how is that a different interaction/connection? Once you stop learning, you stop living, so... Ask questions. Try new things. Share what you know. MailleCode V2.0 T5.3 R4.4 E0.0 Feur MFe.sBr Wg Cwb G.7-5.1 I3.1-11 N20.5 Pj Dcdjt Xa1w2 S08

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