Weave Variant question
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Separate submissions for variant weaves?
Yes
55%
 55%  [ 10 ]
No
22%
 22%  [ 4 ]
Leave it to the Admins to decide
22%
 22%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 18

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Joined: July 11, 2010
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Weave Variant question
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Posted on Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:18 pm
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Ok this has been answered by admins in the Chatroom already but i was wondering other peoples opinion.

Where do we draw the line in regards to variants on weaves? Do we post them with the original as long as it is clear that the variants are there, or should they be posted separately?

RE: the admins answering in chat..... I know that I asked already but I think others should have their opinion heard as well. I am not trying to be disrespectful.


we all walk to the same end, no matter what path we follow

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Posted on Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:45 pm
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variants should be separate submissions.. this way people can either chose to have them come up in search / browse results or not depending on their preference.


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

Joined: July 11, 2010
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Posted on Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:33 am
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sakredchao wrote:
variants should be separate submissions.. this way people can either chose to have them come up in search / browse results or not depending on their preference.


at the same time chao if there are links to tuts on the variants in the base weave's Weave library page, then the WL could be cleaned up a lot and would not be as chaotic..... just a thought on it


we all walk to the same end, no matter what path we follow

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Posted on Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:28 am
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Hexenkind wrote:
sakredchao wrote:
variants should be separate submissions.. this way people can either chose to have them come up in search / browse results or not depending on their preference.


at the same time chao if there are links to tuts on the variants in the base weave's Weave library page, then the WL could be cleaned up a lot and would not be as chaotic..... just a thought on it


Family linkage is coming... It's part of what's on the table for the future, and part of the reason we needed to upgrade the weave library.

Very Happy



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Posted on Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:38 am
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Daemon_Lotos wrote:
Family linkage is coming... It's part of what's on the table for the future, and part of the reason we needed to upgrade the weave library.

Very Happy


Family linking???? please elaborate a little.

Is it meant the way I put it or is it different? I do not know if I was clear with what I was meaning..... Sad If I need to elaborate please let me know.


we all walk to the same end, no matter what path we follow

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Re: Weave Variant question
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Posted on Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:19 am
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I would have to say separate submissions for the variants. If you want them to be referenced with the original, links could be included. However, I think DL has some other super-cool organization system in the works, so I think the point is moot.

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Posted on Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:09 am
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Hexenkind wrote:
Family linking???? please elaborate a little.

Is it meant the way I put it or is it different? I do not know if I was clear with what I was meaning..... Sad If I need to elaborate please let me know.

European, Japanese, Persian, Spiral, Orbital/Captive. Those are the "families" DL is talking about. It's a classification system. And not all variants are in the same family as its "parent". They frequently have parents from multiple families (Hybrid).

I'm not really sure what you mean by "should they be posted together or separately?" There is a major difference between submitting a weave, which should always be done one at a time, and organizing the weaves already in the database. There are multiple ways to do this and DL is currently working on making as many options as possible available to us. We just have to be patient.


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Posted on Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:47 am
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I'd like to see submissions for variants but as is planned linked to a 'mother' weave, so as DL says in families.


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Posted on Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:15 am
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Linked to just a single mother weave is often not easy, as many weaves descend from two parent weaves due to the fact that the new weave is simply a combination of the parents' techniques. So a tagging system that allows crosslinking to and from all parents to all descendants should be the solution.

Example: Moon Orbiter should link to both its parents Harvest Moon AND Orbiter, and Orbiter as well as Harvest Moon should link vice-versa to their child (besides possible other descendants). As I think, that tagging system should be able to achieve this vice-versa crosslinking more or less automatically.

Weave family membership is technically not much more than just such a tag crosslink to a family 'anchor' entry, then. So, once the tagging of the database is finished, the weave family anchors show their family members listed, as well as the members show their membership. In case of Hybrids the weaves simply have multiple memberships, so the 'family' Hybrid should become dispensable. And principally that tagging system can be expanded even to the Article and Gallery database, and even to forum posts, if only one does (or many do) the work to be done, then...

-ZiLi-


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Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
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Posted on Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:45 pm
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ZiLi wrote:
Linked to just a single mother weave is often not easy, as many weaves descend from two parent weaves due to the fact that the new weave is simply a combination of the parents' techniques. So a tagging system that allows crosslinking to and from all parents to all descendants should be the solution.

Example: Moon Orbiter should link to both its parents Harvest Moon AND Orbiter, and Orbiter as well as Harvest Moon should link vice-versa to their child (besides possible other descendants). As I think, that tagging system should be able to achieve this vice-versa crosslinking more or less automatically.

Weave family membership is technically not much more than just such a tag crosslink to a family 'anchor' entry, then. So, once the tagging of the database is finished, the weave family anchors show their family members listed, as well as the members show their membership. In case of Hybrids the weaves simply have multiple memberships, so the 'family' Hybrid should become dispensable. And principally that tagging system can be expanded even to the Article and Gallery database, and even to forum posts, if only one does (or many do) the work to be done, then...

-ZiLi-


Yeah that's kinda what I meant, a tagging system.
But basically, yes I think there is a place for ALL variations.


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Posted on Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:42 pm
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variants, by definition have more than one parent.

if we do not have multiple parents then it is our job to distill the elusive parent.

in my mind there is no upper limit on the number of parents a variant has.

http://www.mailleartisans.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=14792
this thread has some useful information about ring interaction classification.

there are others, if you do a search in the weave forum for "classification".
keep in mind that the ideas have evolved, so if the thread is ten years old it may not be as developed as one that is one or two years old..


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Posted on Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:07 pm
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Legba3 wrote:
Yeah that's kinda what I meant, a tagging system.
But basically, yes I think there is a place for ALL variations.


Call it tagging or what else - important is the CROSS linking part of my words, that works in both directions. The new internal database structure should allow exactly that, and if I interpret DL's intentions right, he had such a feature in mind, to enable us to unify the parts of our library in such a heavier linked structure.

As consequence, even relatively minor alterations of a weave should become allowed to be called 'new weave', and to enter the database - That might clutter the database, if we hadn't such a structure, but won't, if all works out along the lines I described here. Let's see what DL tells us about, as I am NOT sure, what the new structure allows us to do, and what not.

-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper MAl Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Ps Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hip

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Joined: March 3, 2002
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Posted on Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:16 pm
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i don't think it will cause clutter if we give the option to include variants (children of parents) and modifications (slight changes on variants)..

this way people could browse the root weaves and the parents, there are relatively few of these.. 30-40 iirc.. no more than 60.. and add in either variants or mods and variants if the user chooses..

lotos has been a marvel of ingenuity so far.. i trust him to come out with fantastic surprises for us.

we will probably be able to browse by ring interaction relation as well as aesthetic relation (j6 may finally be able to be linked to cascade, for example).. and...? who knows. he's a clever guy. let's let him do his thing and then let narrina do her thing. i trust them to give us something fantastic.



kim


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3.o is fixing everything.

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Posted on Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:29 pm
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DL's intentions... Coif LoL

This is not The Matrix, and I am not The Architect... Or am I...
>.>
<.<

Seriously though...

I've discussed this ad nauseum with Cynake, chao, lorraine, Narrina, ZiLi, pretty much anyone who will listen... I use people like sounding boards when it comes to this stuff.

Each weave is capable of being tagged with a hundred 'tags' or more... Given example weave X:
European, Kinged, Sculpture, Persian, AR Specific, Beginner
(As a fake example... The exact 'tags' still need to be worked out.)
They also have special categories that may be added...
"Alpha" indicating a weave that is a primary family base... IE: Euro 4, Half Perisian 3, Full Persian 6, Tao, Japanese 3 in 1, etc...
'Is Variant' Is this weave a Variant, see below.
'Is Modifcation' Is this weave a Modification, see below.
'Child of' indicating the weave(s) it is descended from.
'Variant of' indicating the weave(s) it is a variant of. [REPLACES CHILD OF in the case of Variants]
'Modification of' indicating the weave it is a modification of. [REPLACES CHILD OF in the case of Modifications]

Child weaves will 'update' their parents entries...
IE: When a weave is tagged as being a 'Child' of Euro 4 and Half Persian 6 in 1, it will be included in both the Euro 4 and Half Persian 6 in 1 entries under 'Weaves based on Euro 4' or some similar heading.
The weave entry for 'Weave X' will also state that it is a Child of Euro 4 and Half Persian 6 in 1.
It will be searchable under both 'European' and 'Persian'... And probably several other categories, based on tags.

Am I making sense?



Joined: July 11, 2010
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Posted on Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:31 pm
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What I was meaning is have the original submission (parent weave) with links to articles for the variants. Like we already have kinda with the tutorials for the weaves. I guess what is happening is kinda what I am talking about, but at the same time its not.

I was thinking of the submissions themselves having minimal information included with the original submission, and having more articles (tutorials) for the variants.

I understand better about the family linking thank you all. With it though, there may be a little confusion about the "parent" weave and "children" weave relationship. With it, Dragonback would have to be linked to HP3-1 and E4-1. So on and so on......... I may just be over analyzing this Rolling Eyes

And Danke Zili fur deine hilfe.... (please do not send too much back still learning from my wife)


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