Article Guidelines re: Products
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Joined: August 30, 2008
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Article Guidelines re: Products
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Posted on Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:47 pm || Last edited by Daemon_Lotos on Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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[Edit]The Dicussion below spawned from: http://www.mailleartisans.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=15467... I snipped the discussion regarding article guidelines and moved here as as not to detract from the article post itself.

lorraine: I accidentally nuked your post in the process, sorry Sad
[/edit]

>.>
<.<

I know we support peoples business ventures... And I really love this welder... Sure wish I had the spare cash to purchase one...

But, lorenzo, I've gotta say...
This article reads more like an instruction manual (and upon visiting TRL's website, is in fact an instruction manual...)

Not to mention, technically that's pushing MAIL towards 'supporting' a business or product...
Something sakredchao has spoken out against in the past (http://www.mailleartisans.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=3707)

Don't get me wrong, I love TRL... Hell, I've been accused of working for them repeatedly, simply due to the amount of "Yeah, you want x from TRL *link*" posts I've made... Both here, and in chat...

But is this really an article? I mean... It has the potential to *be* an article, but a lot of the content is product-specific to the new Welder TRL is selling...

Just my two rings...



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Posted on Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:32 pm
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After a quick glance, I'd have to agree with DL.

-phong



-- CGMaille tutorials now hosted here at MAIL! --

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Posted on Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:36 pm
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Hmm - yes it is a product specific manual however the information is applicable for any resistant welder set up to weld rings... thing is this is the only resistance welder you can buy that is set up to weld rings.

What would you have done differently?



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Posted on Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:53 pm
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The Ring Lord wrote:
Hmm - yes it is a product specific manual however the information is applicable for any resistant welder set up to weld rings... thing is this is the only resistance welder you can buy that is set up to weld rings.

What would you have done differently?


Really, the existing article contains EVERYTHING I would like to see in an article on the subject.
(Difference between this and other types of welding, metal to weld, correct/incorrect welds, etc)

It also contains the information only pertinent to the welder currently for sale at TRL however.
(Setup instructions, circuit diagram, etc)

I guess what I was saying in the first place, is that maybe the article could do with a little nip/tuck. Coif LoL



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Posted on Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:51 pm
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The article has been pretty extensively trimmed from it's book form already.

I left the setup instructions, welder diagram and circuit diagram in the article to give a bit of help to anyone who's decided to build a DIY version. There is no product promotion in the article, just information on it's use and construction.

There are many product specific articles already on MAIL. Probably the most pertinent example is an in depth article on Ray Grossman's jumpringer written by sakredchao.

http://www.mailleartisans.org/articles/articledisplay.cgi?key=13308


www.mailletec.com

Y'know, that might just be crazy enough to work!

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Posted on Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:34 pm
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I think we need a very clear policy to guide this type of article - current guidelines do not cover anything we are currently discussing. I for one say that if Ray himself wrote an article on the jumpringer I WOULD WANT TO SEE IT. MAIL should not directly endorse products but neither should MAIL discourage the free sharing of relevant information just because the author has a tie to the product.



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Posted on Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:36 pm
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BTW I'm also hoping we can have some welder discussion in this thread and maybe move the article guidelines discussion to another thread.



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Posted on Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:51 pm
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The Ring Lord wrote:
I think we need a very clear policy to guide this type of article - current guidelines do not cover anything we are currently discussing. I for one say that if Ray himself wrote an article on the jumpringer I WOULD WANT TO SEE IT. MAIL should not directly endorse products but neither should MAIL discourage the free sharing of relevant information just because the author has a tie to the product.


Agreed! I would love to see some specific guidelines set out. I'll do the split now myself.

The Ring Lord wrote:
BTW I'm also hoping we can have some welder discussion in this thread and maybe move the article guidelines discussion to another thread.


Done.

Also, Jon, I know you're busy as $%^&*()*&^%$, but it's nice to see you using your BOD voice Very Happy



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Posted on Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:32 pm
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I collected a paycheck from The Ringlord for 5 years and recommended their products and supplies on this forum, I can't recall even one instance where anyone mentioned it.

If TRL sells all 50 welders I've got so far I should just about break even on the time and money I've put into developing prototypes. Selling more than that would make it profitable. As it stands now I haven't made a profit and I don't expect to but it could happen, hopefully.

Due to the topic of the article and the fact that there is only one "brand" of welder available to most MAIL members that can weld rings in that manner, I think that purging the article of any mention of the actual welder used would be very counter productive.

Could you copy/paste some specific sentences or phrases that you think should be changed.


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Y'know, that might just be crazy enough to work!

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Posted on Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:39 pm
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lorenzo wrote:
Due to the topic of the article and the fact that there is only one "brand" of welder available to most MAIL members that can weld rings in that manner, I think that purging the article of any mention of the actual welder used would be very counter productive.

Could you copy/paste some specific sentences or phrases that you think should be changed.


I don't advocate an outright purge of this article...
Nor do I suggest removing any and all references to the welder in question... As you said, it is currently the only one of its type in existence...

Re: specific sentences...
As I stated before, the bulk of the article, as written, is fine... The biggest issue, at least the one that is the sticking point for me, is lines like:

"Your welding kit shipped with the OEM user manual for this welder that you should review concerning further information or questions about it."

OR

"A new electrode assembly has been purpose built for TheRingLord.com and has been mounted to the front of the welder."

These sentences, and ones like them, are more 'user manual' type instructions than anything... I hope I'm making sense here...



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Posted on Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:26 pm
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lorenzo wrote:
The article has been pretty extensively trimmed from it's book form already.

I left the setup instructions, welder diagram and circuit diagram in the article to give a bit of help to anyone who's decided to build a DIY version. There is no product promotion in the article, just information on it's use and construction.

There are many product specific articles already on MAIL. Probably the most pertinent example is an in depth article on Ray Grossman's jumpringer written by sakredchao.

http://www.mailleartisans.org/articles/articledisplay.cgi?key=13308


while it is true we have an article on the jumpringer, i'm not sure i would want ray grossman writing it. one of the benefits of having someone not tied to the financial success writing it is that they have no incentive to leave out negative points in the review. in fact, ray wanted to add/change things in my article. i encouraged him to submit those change suggestions but i never got them, so they never happened..

i would love to see a review of this product from someone who was not tied to selling it.

i'm not saying i disagree with commercial reviews done by someone with a proprietary interest in the product.. i really don't know how i feel about this without thinking abotu it more, but that is a difference between the jumpringer article and the welder article that i notice right away.

edit: after reviewing the article.. it contains a lot of good information.. but some of it reads like an advertisement.. i hope you sweep the market, lorenzo.. i'd love to see you dominate, you certainly deserve good things.. but i don't like the idea of advertising outside of the trading forum.

i would like to see this article be only about information that is not equipment specific.

i would also like to see a review of the welder from a non biased author. i would love for MAIL to host both of those things.


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Posted on Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:51 pm
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what about, maybe just an idea here, but sending a "demo" welder to a mail member with good standing in the community for the purpose of writing an unbiased article about? possibly a board member (DL comes to mind since he is in Canada as well) of course it would be the understanding that once the member has tested out and used the welder for several weeks that it would be shipped back to TRL. of course this would require trust of the member, and that is why i suggested a BOD member to be the one to write the article.

we could then leave Lorenzo's article "as is" and possibly append the unbiased review in the article as well, or give it its own Independent article link.

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Posted on Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:06 pm
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Dravin wrote:
what about, maybe just an idea here, but sending a "demo" welder to a mail member with good standing in the community for the purpose of writing an unbiased article about? possibly a board member (DL comes to mind since he is in Canada as well) of course it would be the understanding that once the member has tested out and used the welder for several weeks that it would be shipped back to TRL. of course this would require trust of the member, and that is why i suggested a BOD member to be the one to write the article.

we could then leave Lorenzo's article "as is" and possibly append the unbiased review in the article as well, or give it its own Independent article link.


Whoah, easy boy... Coif LoL

Careful who you go around volunteering Razz
I may want one of these puppies... I may even have the Variac and electrical know-how to use one...
But I'm fairly sure I don't want to be responsible for the safety of one 'on loan' from TRL... Well, that, and as someone who's likely read a lot of my posts, and ramblings, you'll probably find me a little long winded for being the person to write such a review, or article...

That being said, I'd love to have a place for reviews of stuff...
...
...
...
That gives me an idea... *wanders off to find his binder of 'MAIL Ideas'*



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Posted on Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:59 pm
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I have no problem with the articles mod editing the article as they see fit.

I'm going to have to do a bit more editing anyways since the welder capabilites need to be updated(seems it actually can weld many silver and gold alloys), so I'll try and chop out a bit of the fluff but I don't have time to do a complete rewrite.


www.mailletec.com

Y'know, that might just be crazy enough to work!

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