DEPRECATED ---- MAIL ISSUE POLL "History Forum"
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DEPRECATED ---- MAIL ISSUE POLL "History Forum"
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Posted on Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:12 pm
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There has been significant participation in the previous thread so I am going to make this an official MAIL ISSUE POLL.
Here is a link to the previous discussion:
http://www.mailleartisans.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=15101

The Question:
Should there be a forum for historical issues, questions and discussions to make this information easier to find?

This includes, but is not limited to, making hauberks et al, history of weaves and their uses, maille in different periods/countries, techniques of reproduction...


In light that there might be a tagging system in place in v3.0 this issue could be resolved that way, but nothing has been decided yet so why not keep the options open.


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Posted on Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:57 pm
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There seems to be some confusion as to what an Issue Poll is. I was confused too, until I read the Charter.

"An issue poll can be initiated by any member in good standing of the M.A.I.L. community by posting a clearly labeled and worded poll to the discussion board with the subject line "MAIL ISSUE POLL: 'topic' ". This poll determines whether a vote will be taken. An issue poll is considered to be successful if a majority of those participating in the poll are in favor of initiating a vote on the issue presented in the poll. An issue poll must be acted on by the B.O.D. when a significant portion of the currently active membership have participated in the poll."

In other words, the poll is to gauge whether or not the membership believes an official vote should be held on the topic in question.

The poll should read:
Should MAIL hold the proposed membership vote on the topic Adding a History Forum?

So: I'm going to reissue this poll so that it follows the M.A.I.L charter. I am also going to move this to Requests. Knitting Circle is a more casual forum, whereas Requests is where official business such as an Issue Poll belongs.

Thank you for reading this!


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Joined: December 24, 2009
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Posted on Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:26 pm
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So we're going to vote on the issue of creating a history forum 3 times?

    The first poll is to see if anyone if interested.

    The second poll (per the charter) is to see if we should vote on it.

    The third poll is to actually vote on it.

I wondered why hardly anyone ever votes.

Joined: December 22, 2007
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Posted on Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:36 pm
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Suulia, I understand your frustration. I really do. But the first poll was a casual question asked by MusicMan who was honestly just trying to gauge member interest. When significant changes are made to the forums, they have to be handled in a serious way. First we have to officially poll to find out if the change is warranted. That prevents us from making huge changes without backing from the membership.

I cannot lock this improperly worded poll. I'm waiting on another admin to do it for me.

So some patience on your part would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.


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Joined: April 02, 2008
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Posted on Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:56 pm
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Lorraine - I guess that I read the bylaws to say that the issue poll if passed by the majority of the active members of the MAIL community initiates a vote of the BoD. That way the membership would not be voting 3 times. There would be an initial interest poll, the Issue poll and than a BoD poll.


If I am incorrect I appologize, but it seems silly to have the community vote three times on the same item.


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Joined: December 22, 2007
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Posted on Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:34 pm
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MusicMan, your initial poll was not an Issue Poll. It was worded casually and did not follow the outline of an Issue Poll as defined in the charter. That is not to say I didn't find it useful, because I did. It would have been better if you had asked the membership to discuss the issue and left the poll part out of it. By making it a poll, you gave the impression that it had some officialism that it really didn't have. The thread caused some excellent discussion to take place, but the poll caused at least a little confusion, with some wanting to change their vote. But you are suggesting a significant change to the forum. If you go back and look at the discussion and polls that took place to add the Trading Room to the forums, you will see what I mean. Significant changes require the BoD to act in a official way, and for us to call your poll official would be irresponsible on our part.

So again, I know it is frustrating, but the BoD takes membership concerns seriously. We cannot let a casual poll take the place of an official one.

Thank you.


"I am a leaf on the wind." ~ Wash
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Joined: December 24, 2009
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Posted on Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:54 pm
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lorraine wrote:
Suulia, I understand your frustration. I really do.... So some patience on your part would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your reply. I can see how my post could be read the way you did, but to clarify, I'm not frustrated or impatient at all. I actually voted "no" on all 3 polls so far.

I was just trying to point out the silliness of the having three different polls about the same exact issue, and realizing now that a 4th poll has to be voted on by the BOD, too.

I need to read Robert's Rules again.

Joined: April 02, 2008
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Posted on Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:57 pm
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lorraine wrote:
MusicMan, your initial poll was not an Issue Poll. It was worded casually and did not follow the outline of an Issue Poll as defined in the charter. That is not to say I didn't find it useful, because I did. It would have been better if you had asked the membership to discuss the issue and left the poll part out of it.


You are absolutely correct that is why I started an official one today.


loraine wrote:
By making it a poll, you gave the impression that it had some officialism that it really didn't have.


Sorry that was not the intention. I was directed by an admin. to start a poll to see what the interest in it was.

lorraine wrote:
Significant changes require the BoD to act in a official way, and for us to call your poll official would be irresponsible on our part.

So again, I know it is frustrating, but the BoD takes membership concerns seriously. We cannot let a casual poll take the place of an official one.


When did I ever say that it was official? Unless you are talking about the Issue Poll I started today. The first poll was to see if there was interest in such a thing and to start a discussion, which occurred, and than I started the new poll today.

I don't want to argure about it I am just trying to understand where you are getting your information.


Once you stop learning, you stop living, so...
Ask questions.
Try new things.
Share what you know.

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Posted on Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:37 pm
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Initial interest could be determined in many ways, there's nothing wrong with making a poll to gauge it. voting in a poll is faster than replying to a thread for lazy/busy people. You could also have made a regular thread and tallied the replies, or if the topic was recurrent that would be evidence of interest in itself.

As for this poll, Lorraine is right it is not worded correctly. This thread should be locked and marked as deprecated(like Legba's original poll was) to avoid confusion.


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Joined: December 22, 2007
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Posted on Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:37 pm
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MusicMan wrote:

When did I ever say that it was official? Unless you are talking about the Issue Poll I started today. The first poll was to see if there was interest in such a thing and to start a discussion, which occurred, and than I started the new poll today.
I don't want to argure about it I am just trying to understand where you are getting your information.

I can certainly see why you think that is what I was saying, but I assure you, it is not. I was starting to see you, suulia, and myself lump all the polls into one group as "the same poll over and over". I was simply making a distinction between unofficial and official. That is all that was meant.


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Posted on Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:40 pm
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Okay... This seems to just be a breakdown in communication...
Let's see if I can't clarify.



An Issue Poll is to see if the Membership would like to vote on an issue. And change something without the BOD being involved.

It must be clearly worded, and indicate that it is not ACTUALLY a vote, but to see if the members would LIKE to vote.

An Issue Poll does not require any precursor, the poll regarding whether or not there was interest in this topic was nice, but irellevent to the current situation.

If the issue poll passes, the BOD will take the situation over, and post the required vote, allowing the membership their say in whether the forum is created or not.


Again...
An Issue poll is *not* a vote on an issue, but a decision on whether a vote will be held or not.

This is an important distinction. As 'Yes I wish to vote on this' can mean 'No, I don't want a new forum'...


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