Bracelets: HP 5-1 and JPL5x2
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Joined: May 07, 2008
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Location: Germany, Herxheim

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Posted on Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:51 pm
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Lorraine - I am not silly, and did NOT want to 'denigrate' your piece(s) in any way - I am FAR away from such behaviour. I just uttered my personal opinion, that this fine example of a clasp, and the chain that is also a beauty (both pieces being 'up to Legba standards') Very Happy just don't fit together. Both would imho profit from being used with other partner pieces - the chain with a rounded fishhook or S-hook clasp similar sized as the ring size used in the chain, to blend better within, and not distracting from the chain. And that clasp would imho be well suited for a wider, flat chain, that maybe incorporates some wire-wrapped rings in connector spots, to get a harmonic interaction of chain and clasp.

Who shows pieces, usually asks for criticism - and criticism can be in the range of 'great' to 'dren'. What we all who show finished pieces dislike, is destructive, unqualified criticism. But I also dislike to see only applausor's comments. I see mine as a constructive one, including showing ways for improvement - as I expect to receive for pieces I show. And in the case I cannot stand criticism, in times I feel a bit 'thin-skinned', I will not show pieces made.

About the construction technique I use for HP chains: I go with the 'on a wire' technique shown in our library for HP3 and HP4 chains - here I used five preclosed rings on a center ring, and stacked them '2 left, 3 right' on the guide wire to begin with. And then I followed the standard 'one open plus one preclosed' method already described. In principle the same way like Lorraine's - she just omitted the (principally unnecessary) leftmost ring on the starter (that I like to have anyway).

Edit: After having had nearly forgot about, I gave HP7-1 a shot (20awg x 17/64" mandrel, 1/4" might also just work) - but in my opinion usually only a base weave and its first progression step (=HP3-1 to HP6-1) result in really useworthy pieces, as the ARs simply grow into a unuseable range - but as 'academic' piece they bear a right to exist.

(Click thumb to get bigger image)

-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper MAl Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Ps Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hip

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Joined: January 21, 2004
Posts: 1061
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Posted on Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:19 pm
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ManowarDave wrote:
ta-da ---->hp5in1 Very Happy


Good to see someone's on the ball with knowing what's in the weavebase. Smile

I'd also point out that with the higher iterations, you can vary the number of up/down connections to get different effects. For instance, HP3-1 is usually made with 1 up connection and 2 down; HP4-1 has 2 up 2 down. HP5-1 as shown here has 2 up 3 down. But there's nothing saying it can't be 3 up 2 down, or even 1 up 4 down. Not sure if 1u4d would be stable, but point is you can change that around a bit with the higher HPx-1's.

I'd also also point out that not all of those combinations necessarily need to be entered as separate weaves. The technique could be shown with a couple, then the rest left as described progressions.

-phong



-- CGMaille tutorials now hosted here at MAIL! --

Joined: May 07, 2008
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Location: Germany, Herxheim

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Posted on Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:28 pm
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Yeah, when browsing our weave database I was astonished to see the asymmetric variations ('oops-HP') - I WILL have to make some to regain the Persian feeling...

BTW: Maybe it would make sense to split this thread, and put the weave discussion part where it belongs - it's really a shame: While being a mod, I don't know how to do that... Sad

-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper MAl Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Ps Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hip

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Joined: April 15, 2002
Posts: 1823
Submissions: 1
Location: Calgary, AB. Canada.

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Posted on Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:03 pm
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Y'know, a lot faster than making all the combinations by hand, would be if someone were to write a macro for a 3D app. Then we could show all the HPs from 3-10 or so, with all the different up/downs.

*whistles innocently*

Joined: August 10, 2005
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Location: UK

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Posted on Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:00 pm
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Well done on finding I searched several combos of the name and couldn't find it (shows that the library or at least the search function needs updating *sorry DL* Smile )

lorraine you so need to submit a tut for that, lovely clear piccys and all, thanks. Very Happy *off to give it go*


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Joined: August 10, 2005
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Posted on Sun Jan 24, 2010 3:13 pm
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Help please lorraine & ZiLi, with your expert eyes would you say I have made some HP5in1? I ask because mine looks slightly different on each side a la HP 3in1, is this right? lorraine 's lovely bracelet seemed to be the same on both sides, or was that just down to how the pics were taken?
Thanks guys






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Joined: May 08, 2005
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Posted on Sun Jan 24, 2010 3:45 pm
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You've got it. It's got a wider base like all the odd hp's.

Joined: August 10, 2005
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Posted on Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:04 pm
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Thanks MoWDave


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Joined: January 21, 2004
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Posted on Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:04 pm
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Yeah, all odd HPx-1's are asymmetrical; all even HPx-1's are (or can be) symmetrical. The higher x-1's can be arranged differently, so a HP6-1 that has 2 ups and 4 downs will be asymmetrical.

-phong



-- CGMaille tutorials now hosted here at MAIL! --

Joined: May 07, 2008
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Location: Germany, Herxheim

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Posted on Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:09 pm
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Sara: As I told already in a post further above, its normal that the uneven HPn-1s have a trapezoidal cross section, while the even ones have a rectangular one. And so I may tell you, that you got it right. Easy, isn't it, after one knows, how to do it? Very Happy

ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper MAl Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Ps Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hip

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

Joined: December 22, 2007
Posts: 4610
Submissions: 106
Location: Hampton, Virginia USA

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Posted on Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:30 pm
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You got it Legba. Smile I photographed the bracelet on both sides. I think maybe the difference is less pronounced as you get higher up the progressions, but it's still there in the odd-numbered HP's.


"I am a leaf on the wind." ~ Wash
Lorraine's Chains
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Joined: August 10, 2005
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Posted on Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:18 pm
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I just couldn't see it in your pics maybe the two colours threw me? Thanks for pointing out a new Persian to me, I have a couple customers who are Persian fans so I know I'm gonna make 2 sales for sure!


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Joined: June 27, 2009
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Posted on Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:19 am
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Love both of them and have already done the 5 in 1 thanks to your pics.

Thanks!


For the moon never beams without bringing me dreams

Joined: November 19, 2008
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Posted on Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:23 pm
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Both the bracelets are great, Lorraine.

I had a go at HP5 but I could get it started ( Mad ). For HP3 I use the "thru an eye, round an eye" type method and HP4 is "thru an eye, round an eye, thru an eye" so does that mean that HP5 should be thru, round, thru, round?! I guess the method works better with smaller HPs!

I think I might end up colourising photos again in an attempt to give my rubbish 3D visualisation a chance!

I wanted to have a go at this: http://www.mailleartisans.org/weaves/pics/sm6705img34008hs.jpg but I suspect I'll probably get cross and throw my pliers out of the pram...

Joined: March 27, 2009
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Posted on Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:04 am
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lorraine, what size wire did you use for the clasp (the bronze one)?

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