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Daemon_Lotos for Coder Admin Helper?
Yes, all aboard!
 100%  [ 8 ]
No, sorry the train doesn't stop in this town.
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 8

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Joined: April 15, 2002
Posts: 1822
Submissions: 1
Location: Calgary, AB. Canada.

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Posted on Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:39 am || Last edited by Cynake on Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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HerrBGone wrote:
I’ll throw in my two cents and say “Yea” to the new coder

I promoted him yesterday. He's just waiting on Blaise (or Kith, or Criterion) to hand him the admin login to start poking around and seeing how things are done.

and “hang on a minute there” to a wiki without extensive beta testing. What I am concerned about with a wiki format is the ease with which much harm could be done by someone with malicious intent. I haven’t seen any indication of that around here (with one long ago handled exception) but the possibility remains.

On technical grounds, not a problem. Not a problem to show what it'll look like first. Not a problem to beta-test (will have to, I'll be recruiting a team of volunteers to help seed and populate before turning it loose, it's important to have good examples in place before the public gets ahold).

In terms of exploitability, I think I've made a 6, or maybe 8 point list of why it's really not an issue and what we'll have (or, at least, that I'd like to have, all of which seem quite possibly according to DL) in place to deal with it, the least of which is.. go look at any wiki out there. It's not a problem for them.

Worst case scenario, total disaster, we're back only to what we have now.

If you want to do more reading...

http://www.mailleartisans.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=11858#160185 <-- That one post of mine is a bit of noob introduction that summarizes my latest take on the matter.

How much of a wiki we end up with, will depend on what people want, though, no one's yet given any feedback on where to go from here.

As for where to start: We have a long ago agreed upon new header that is presently only used on the nearly as long ago implemented Nubie Page*. I’d like to see it at least mocked up and/or beta tested on other pages throughout the site. As I recall the header was to be implemented on each page as they were recoded and reconfigured on an ‘as we have time’ basis. Those with the ability simply haven’t had the time.

Now that DL is onboard, no need to graft and frankensite bits and pieces anymore. A full redesign can roll. Header will probably get tweaked a bit still.


Hot damn. Thank you. That is awesome. I was hoping that there was at least one of us that had a copy of that. Woot. Great!

[Edited to add: That was on Phong's university account, I mentioned it to him just now and he said he should nab it off there, as they might purge it as he's no longer a student there. So, in the event that the above link dies:

http://cgmaille.com/mailpages/mail-nubie-Phong-v1d.shtml <-- He hosted it here for us to peer at, as a backup].

Also a new layout of the front page has been discussed at some length. That would be another good place to start and would likely be a lot less work than grafting the header into the code for the rest of the site – though it would lead to much discussion and likely several prototypes before we settle on a final design.


I plan on 2 main pages. One is the normal front page, where everyone new is introduced to the site, what happens when you go to mailleartisans.org. The other is the page that everyone who knows what MAIL is would want to bookmark. Right now the front page kinda tries to do both, and it's not so good at either. Well, you probably remember all that talk.

I haven't forgotten much but I have had years to think about and work on most of this, I've thought of some improvements.

Glad to have you back/around/briefly stepping in.

Joined: July 25, 2006
Posts: 958
Submissions: 3
Location: Klamath Falls, Or.

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Posted on Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:58 am
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Managing a wiki can be as easy or difficult as we want to make it. There are a ton of options for user editing access....the key is using good, proven, full featured software. All the fears of content getting screwed with are really not issues when you can restrict access, approve content, and undo anything that goes south.

As I posted before, these are the folks we got our softwre from for NatGoe, and the new Topo Explorer app(which isn't doing so hot, they should have waited to release TE, check it out, you'll see why)
If you dig maps like I do, you'll really like this new app, TE, once the bugs are worked out.

I don't know about the web server, Apache, PHP....if you've got MS office, you've got MySQL....I don't have the first idea how to start to set up this FREE software, but I sure like using it.


"Out of clutter, find simplicity. From discord, find harmony. In the middle of difficulty, find opportunity."
Chaincraft Mandrels

Joined: April 15, 2002
Posts: 1822
Submissions: 1
Location: Calgary, AB. Canada.

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Posted on Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:16 am
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Kodiak wrote:
Managing a wiki can be as easy or difficult as we want to make it. There are a ton of options for user editing access....the key is using good, proven, full featured software.


Indeed. Ideally, we want something pretty heavily skinnable. I don't know if MediaWiki fits the bill.

I've also heard the base requirements for MediaWiki, just to get it live and running, are somewhat enormous. Something like, unless you have 1,000 (made up, I just remember it's high), people simultaneously editing, don't use it. It's super-efficient on a grand scale, but the architecture is inefficient at our scale. Our webhost also might crap their pants if we ran one.

I looked into a stack of wiki software a few years back, but, it's somewhat greek to me. Also, everything I've tried that isn't MediaWiki, looks like garbage. It also has so many add-ons (I've heard its gallery add-on is superb), it might be the thing we want.

A great thing about MediaWiki is that there are volunteers standing around, all the time, willing to help you figure out how to get one working, and the best way to get it into your site.

But, I'll leave the tech choices to Daemon Lotos. It'll be a back and forth between our dream workup, then looking for what's out there, then looking back at the best we can make with what's out there, then looking to see if there's anything different that fits that, etc.

Joined: August 30, 2008
Posts: 3051
Submissions: 20
Location: Burlington, ON, Canada

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Posted on Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:27 pm
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Alright, chiming in... Somehow appropriate for a first post... It'll be short and sweet, it's far to early in the morning for me to come up with Cynake-sized posts.

MediaWiki is genius... And fairly user-alterable... I like it, don't get me wrong... But the big problem with it, is that it's ridiculously bloated. Bloat aside, it is likely inefficient for what you... no... we... want to use it for.
I'm still toying with a lot of things in my head, in terms of what scripts live where... Sadly, flowcharts don't make for excellent BB posts.
And Cynake... don't worry... It's not an all-or-nothing hurtle towards a pre-fab script/piece of software... If we find nothing out there that fits our needs... I'll custom something from scratch... No biggie.

Also, seeing as this is hi... Hi guys Very Happy
Some of you know me from TRL's forums, some don't... Some of you I've chatted with, some I haven't. So for those that don't know me, hey! For those that do, hey again...

If anyone has any oddly specific questions, don't hesitate to contact me... I think my userprofile has all my contact info in it... If not, PM me or something.

Urmhey... On that note, breakfast time...

Joined: August 10, 2005
Posts: 7093
Submissions: 337
Location: UK

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Posted on Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:56 pm
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Hey you! Very Happy
Welcome aboard Wink

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Joined: November 20, 2003
Posts: 2561
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Location: Northbrook, IL

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Posted on Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:02 pm
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I should probably be thankful you guys passed up my offer to do the coding help. Senior year of college and Pet Dragons Two is plenty for me already.

*and he vanishes back into the night from whence he came...*

Joined: February 15, 2002
Posts: 881
Submissions: 45
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

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Posted on Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:24 am
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Welcome DL! Best of luck in your endeavors Very Happy

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.--Bertrand Russell

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Joined: April 29, 2002
Posts: 3213
Submissions: 93
Location: Albany, New York

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Posted on Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:20 am
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Hey Daemon, sorry about the delay. Check your PMs...

"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."

— George Bernard Shaw

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Joined: March 3, 2002
Posts: 4378
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Location: tres piedras, new mexico

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Posted on Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:02 pm
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thank you coder person!

yes.. we do need one of those.


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

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