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Posted on Mon May 20, 2019 12:23 pm
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I’d like to add the following information to This topic:
Box Chain 4 in 1 is called drottninglänk in Swedish.
Byzantine is called kungslänk, kejsarlänk, kåkfararlänk or stenebylänk in Swedish.

Drottninglänk (Queens Link/Chain) sometimes is used for Byzantine, as Well.
Kungslänk (Kings Link/chain) and Kejsarlänk (emperors) is usually used for soldered Byzantine in noble metals, but not exclusively. Kåkfararlänk (Prison Goers) and Steneby (Named after a community College) is usually used for unsoldered silver, but not exclusively.


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Posted on Tue May 28, 2019 5:29 pm
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Karpeth wrote:
8/1.3. And I’ve Done Hourglass alot in 8/1.3, so the min is wrong There as Well. However, the min could be different, as it’s not hourglass. The orbitals are connected.

I would like not to submit it. I am not proud of these images.


8... millimeters, I’m guessing. Is that the mandrel size or measured?

The listed minimum AR of 6.6 for Hour Glass Units was set by me. Perhaps at the time I used the metric of lowest possible AR that keeps the center rings from “clashing”, as the shifting of these rings that can be seen in the sample image for Orbiting Byzantine, as well as in your images (of which I still would like to see some of ending up in the gallery). For now I’ll crank the ideal ar for it to 7.0.


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Box Sheets, y’all
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Posted on Tue May 28, 2019 5:33 pm || Last edited by Chainmailbasket_com on Wed May 29, 2019 12:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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I spent much of February weaving assorted Byzantine, and Box Chain 4 in 1 variants and sheets. Most were reproductions of items established in the weave library. I didn’t come up with much new stuff until I crossed into B^ territory (see , B^3, which relate to Byzantine). I’ll share those findings later. It’s not a substantial amount.

As per my previous post regarding Box sheets, here are the two mentioned:



Top: Standard Alternating Box Sheet
AR of 4.9, AR of 6.0 for the Box Chain 4 in 1
AR of 4.2 connector rings

Bottom: Standard Box Sheet ( http://www.mailleartisans.org/gallery/gallerydisplay.php?key=2988 , http://www.mailleartisans.org/gallery/gallerydisplay.php?key=177 )
AR of 4.9, AR of 6.0 for the Box Chain 4 in 1
AR of 3.9, AR of 4.4. connector rings.

I used 2 ring sizes for the Box chains to flatten them.

ARs listed are based on measured WD & ID.


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Posted on Tue May 28, 2019 6:06 pm
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Chainmailbasket_com wrote:
Karpeth wrote:
8/1.3. And I’ve Done Hourglass alot in 8/1.3, so the min is wrong There as Well. However, the min could be different, as it’s not hourglass. The orbitals are connected.

I would like not to submit it. I am not proud of these images.


8... millimeters, I’m guessing. Is that the mandrel size or measured?

The listed minimum AR of 6.6 for Hour Glass Units was set by me. Perhaps at the time I used the metric of lowest possible AR that keeps the center rings from “clashing”, as the shifting of these rings that can be seen in the sample image for Orbiting Byzantine, as well as in your images (of which I still would like to see some of ending up in the gallery). For now I’ll crank the ideal ar for it to 7.0.


First off; Thanks for sharing!

8mm measured over 1.3 measured. AR 6.15. I’ll upload a picture of the unit I just made. The AR is too low for me to use anything but springsteel and the special plier that I use for that. I’ll link a video. (Said Video)

I am unsure what you mean by clashing. Orbiting Byzantine is not a strand of true hour Glass units. Instead of 4 single rings, it’s 2 pairs of 2 pairs, interconeccted.

Hour Glass Chain cannot be made with 6.15; i have made such at 7.1, but not lower.

Other findings:
(From perusing the library)Box Chain 6 in 1 is related to box chain, (though not listed), but the Ideal AR is way to low. I’ll see of My 8.5 rings are enough.


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Posted on Tue May 28, 2019 7:53 pm
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Clashing is probably not the best word. I use that word to describe two or more rings trying to occupy the same space.

Also: yikes!
I didn’t even see that other ring interaction in Orbiting Byzantine, so I guess I was making the wrong thing: “Hourglass Chain”.


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Posted on Tue May 28, 2019 9:33 pm
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Chainmailbasket_com wrote:
Clashing is probably not the best word. I use that word to describe two or more rings trying to occupy the same space.

Also: yikes!
I didn’t even see that other ring interaction in Orbiting Byzantine, so I guess I was making the wrong thing: “Hourglass Chain”.

Could you Point to me where such interactions appear?

Yikes what? The force and technique needed is impossible for me without ”the Swedish technique” at hand, but orbital interactions can be Done with much lower ar with ”the Swedish technique”, If that’s what you’re talking about.

I’ll add the orbiting Byzantine to the list of ”studied” as ”unintended”, as we have devoted some thought to it here.


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Posted on Wed May 29, 2019 2:27 pm
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Just reporting; my ideas on Moon bolting in more dimensions need an adjustment. Experiment fell trough.


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Posted on Wed May 29, 2019 9:31 pm
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Karpeth wrote:
Yikes what? The force and technique needed is impossible for me without ”the Swedish technique” at hand, but orbital interactions can be Done with much lower ar with ”the Swedish technique”, If that’s what you’re talking about.


My yikes comment was about how I somehow completely missed the added connections in Orbiting Byzantine, and somehow missed this comment:
Karpeth wrote:
Connect the Two orbital rings in Hour Glass to eachother, and you have Orbital Byzantine.


I’ll get back to you on the Hourglass Unit/orbital thing after further research.


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Posted on Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:04 am
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Inverted Byzantine Ringmaille is definitly related, but I have a hard time seeing what it truly is.


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Posted on Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:51 pm
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Box Chain 6 in 1 has an Ideal AR above what is listed, but below 8. 6 makes it bunch up, 8 is too floppy.


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Posted on Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:47 am
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Karpeth wrote:
Box Chain 6 in 1 has an Ideal AR above what is listed, but below 8. 6 makes it bunch up, 8 is too floppy.


Indeed.


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Posted on Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:29 pm
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On the subject of Full Persian 6 in 1 variants, Enceladus Chain is extremely similar to Full Persian 6 in 1 Gridlock. The only difference is that the singled ring set in the 1.5P grain of every other cell isn’t doubled.

There are not less than five FP6-1 variants in the library with half FP grain, and something different on t’other.

Enceladus Chain is half FP6, half One and a Half Persian.
Full Persian 6 in 1 Gridlock is half FP6, half One Hour Less Sleep.
Full Persian Elven Rope is half FP6, half Elven Rope (Dark Elf).
Yucca Chain is half FP6, half Two Hours Less Sleep.
Assyrian is half FP6, half Three Hours Less Sleep/Two and a Half Persian.

P.s. Two and a Half Persian has been approved.


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Posted on Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:43 pm
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Chainmailbasket_com wrote:
On the subject of Full Persian 6 in 1 variants, Enceladus Chain is extremely similar to Full Persian 6 in 1 Gridlock. The only difference is that the singled ring set in the 1.5P grain of every other cell isn’t doubled.

There are not less than five FP6-1 variants in the library with half FP grain, and something different on t’other.

Enceladus Chain is half FP6, half One and a Half Persian.
Full Persian 6 in 1 Gridlock is half FP6, half One Hour Less Sleep.
Full Persian Elven Rope is half FP6, half Elven Rope (Dark Elf).
Yucca Chain is half FP6, half Two Hours Less Sleep.
Assyrian is half FP6, half Three Hours Less Sleep/Two and a Half Persian.

P.s. Two and a Half Persian has been approved.


Worth Noting is that 2.5P connects with a Harvest Moon style connection; it utilizes a doubled Moon bolt; one on each side of the trizantine Ring, unlike Shuttle, which uses a regular Full Persian cell as a connector.


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Posted on Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:15 pm
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On a side note, Baelrog's Barb Wire seems to Modify hourglass the same way as ”orbiting byzantine”


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Posted on Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:13 pm
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I’ve put this off long enough. Getting back to the AR considerations I made for a few things, I’ve raised the ideal AR for Orbiting Byzantine to 6.7 after properly weaving it. It’s still a bit loose.

Hour Glass Unit does indeed have a minimum AR of 6.6. I barely smooshed together one at 6.3, but it’s badly distorted and some of the rings have forced gaps at their closures. At 6.4, I ended up with a distorted HGU, some of the rings in which gap at the closure. Even in a strong and stout .080” bronze I produced an AR of 6.5 HGU that was almost completely free of distortion, but couldn’t end it up not having at least a tiny amount of ring gap at some of the closures. I might consider 6.5 to be an “uncomfortable” minimum.

Karpeth wrote:
8mm measured over 1.3 measured. AR 6.15. I’ll upload a picture of the unit I just made. The AR is too low for me to use anything but springsteel and the special plier that I use for that. I’ll link a video. (Said Video)


Just as AR is unitless (mm or inches), it is also “metalless”. You claim you had to use spring steel, which means it’s relying at least partially on material elasticity to keep its form.

Regarding those pliers, I’ve seen them before. The bottom line however, is that any ring that is not preclosed has to open a minimum of the wire width to interconnect to others. Even they can be open slightly less than that amount and elasticly force their way around a ring, but still have to be closed. It doesn’t even end up being the last ring added that closure gaps, but adding that ring imposes ring gap on others, no matter how careful I am.

Also, the reason I asked you if your AR was based on measured data because 8mm seems very round. Not a single decimal place, eh? What is the accuracy of your measuring tool? What mandrel size yielded 8mm?

That thing I mentioned about ring clash doesn’t apply here. I mistakenly associated it with the wrong weave.


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