Highly specialized grade of stainless steel
View previous topic | View next topic >
Post new topic Reply to topic
M.A.I.L. Forum Index -> Knitting Circle
   
Author Message

Joined: April 12, 2017
Posts: 6
Submissions: 4
Location: Moreno Valley California

Highly specialized grade of stainless steel
Reply with quote
Posted on Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:47 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

This is my first real post, besides saying hello, so please, take it easy on me.
I have access to some highly specialized stainless steel. It's Carpenter Custom 455 Stainless. This is a surgical stainless steel used to produce things like wrenches for pacemakers. It can heat treated. It is super strong, even in its annealed state. Type 304 stainless is like butter compared to this stuff. Carpenter produces this only as small as 1/8th inch on a mill run (about 500lbs at a time), though the company I work for sends that out to Boston centerless to be precision ground down to 0.070" (1.78mm). I've worked out a deal with my employer that allows me to have the bar ends instead of them being sold as scrap. That's about 75 bar ends a week, at 6 inch long each. I know, I can't get very many rings from this, but it will add up in time. My thing is, I don't want to waste it! I'm not strong enough to work with it myself, so I would be interested in selling it, as precision saw cut rings for combat type projects. With that in mind, what would be the most suitable aspect ratio for me wind this stuff up at?

Note, an of 3.5AR would be a killer to try and work with, unless you have some very strong hands and some excellent pliers.


Rue

Joined: November 25, 2010
Posts: 1684
Submissions: 100
Location: Es-whoy-malth B.C.

Reply with quote
Posted on Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:57 am
Link to Post: Link to Post

are the 6inch cuts 1/8 or 0.07?? it might not be worth the pain, 6inches is not really enough length to work a consistent ring size, you would need a micro bar bending tool made for the job and cutting would be a bigger problem. maybe let your boss send them away to scrap.

Joined: April 12, 2017
Posts: 6
Submissions: 4
Location: Moreno Valley California

Reply with quote
Posted on Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:20 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

The bar ends are 0.07" (1.78mm). They vary in length a little from machine to machine, but most are right around 6 inch long. I have made a few special winding fixtures for them already out of hardened tool steel with a mandrel length of 2 1/4" supported at both ends with bronze bearings. The one I seem to use the most gives me 4 or 5 rings each. It has a mandrel of 0.275" diameter and gives me a ring of 0.29" inner diameter (4.15AR). With that mandrel and the amount of material available to me that's about 300 rings a week. Rather limited, but still, I think it would add up, and too, be worth the effort considering the quality of the stainless.
I currently have two other winding fixtures. One with a mandrel of 0.25" (3.8AR) and the other with a mandrel of 0.375" (5.6AR). Both of which are the same design as the 0.275".
My initial question was/is do I actually want to use one of those, or make a new mandrel that would yeild a more desirable AR for somebody who might be looking for some serious rings to weave with?
I do understand that that's a very hard question to answer considering all the variables. I'd just hate to make up a bunch of rings nobody wanted.

Thanks for all your help


Rue

Joined: July 17, 2009
Posts: 414
Submissions: 20
Location: Palm Springs, CA

Reply with quote
Posted on Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:31 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

I agree with Djgm. Don't really see the value here for maille. 6 inch sticks is too short to be useful. And how will you cut the rings on a stick that short?
Maille is very sensitive to AR in most cases. Unless you know the project the rings are for in advance, you are likely to end up with unwanted rings.
Also, the size is very heavy. Too heavy (carry weight) for armor. Too big for jewelry. I don't see an application for that material.
Unless you want to craft something from it yourself, I'd say it is most valuable as scrap.
I know you probably think you found a goldmine here -- but you didn't. Crying (very sad)



Joined: April 12, 2017
Posts: 6
Submissions: 4
Location: Moreno Valley California

Reply with quote
Posted on Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:56 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

OK, I submitted three images. One of my coiling fixtures, one of my saw and one of a sample piece of gridlock that I produced with one of the coilers and the saw. You are most welcome to check those out and see what you think. Pay close attention to how consistant those rings are and how clean those saw cuts are (No rookie here). I may be new to this site, but I am not new to metal working. I am a certified 30+ year journeyman tool & die maker, a mastercraftsman!
I understand, you guys are trying to help me out, and that's sort of what I asked for, I guess, though as of yet, I have gotten any input on a prefered AR. Maybe instead of addressing why I should not consider using this material, we should get back to the original question, and the ins and outs of that.


Rue

Joined: June 19, 2013
Posts: 94
Submissions: 8
Location: Rotterdam

Reply with quote
Posted on Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:45 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

You could do Flat Full Persian 5 in 1 with that AR. A better choice would be about 5.1 for Half Persian 4 in 1. That's a popular weave for men and doesn't require that many rings.

Perhaps you could make clasps from your wires.



Joined: March 10, 2015
Posts: 8
Submissions: 1

Reply with quote
Posted on Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:55 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

1) A hauberk from that ring size would use about 30,000 rings. At 300 rings/week, that's two years to supply one shirt. Is your employer going to be buying this product for that long? Can you guarantee that to your potential customer?

2) For strong stainless steel armor, I can buy welded from weldedchainmail.com or riveted from icefalcon.com or customchainmail.com. Why would your potential customer pick butted links over those options?

3) For attractive saw-cut stainless rings, theringlord.com can sell me a truckload for cheaper than I could make them myself. joshuadiliberto.com has diameters in 1/128" increments and I can pick the coiling direction. Why would your potential customer value your alloy over the consistency and choice that other vendors offer?

I'm not dodging your AR question. I'm just saying it may be easier to first narrow down the customer you are targeting. Who are they? Why do they specifically want Carpenter Custom 455 Stainless in small amounts? What do they want to make with it? If you have the answer to those questions, you'll also know the AR.

Joined: June 20, 2012
Posts: 307
Submissions: 22
Location: France

Reply with quote
Posted on Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:10 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

Hello and welcome!

"what would be the most suitable aspect ratio for me wind this stuff up at?"
It doesn't really work that way.
There is no one-AR-fits-them-all, and a lot of projects use several sizes.

You either have to make many many rings of different ARs and wait to find something to do with them, or hoard raw wire and make rings on-demand.

Joined: April 12, 2017
Posts: 6
Submissions: 4
Location: Moreno Valley California

Reply with quote
Posted on Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:43 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

Very Happy Well said Eric! And thank you very much for your input. I spent the evening last night looking around at different sites that sell rings and found exactly what you mentioned. Rings are cheap! Mostly. Where I sit now is, I have 3,000 rings made up at an AR of 4.15. These I had done some time ago to make boxchains out of. I made a few dozen chains for friends and friends of friends. They looked really nice too.. heavy! Some were necklaces and some were used as those chains that attach to a wallet, like the biker types use. But I over did it. I hurt my arms and hands working with it for many hours at a time. This stuff is really tough! There are two drums full of bar ends out on the doc that I've spoken for. Who knows how many that is... lots. If I just got busy winding and cutting that, it would thousands and thousands of rings.
The reason I took an interest in this material is because it is so tough, and too, it is precision ground to an rms8 finish. A short stint in the barrel tumbler and it comes out like chrome, and that finish will hold for a very long time. I think it would make an exceptional piece, though to be honest, I don't really know. Exceptional looking, sure, but like you mentioned, as tough as it is, would butted hold up in combat? That would be interesting test Very Happy Wouldn't it? A fun project for sure. Now if I just knew somebody close by with a strong arm and spear, or a bow.

BTW.. This stuff can easily be spot welded, and too, heat treated.

Again, thank you for your input.


Rue

Joined: April 12, 2017
Posts: 6
Submissions: 4
Location: Moreno Valley California

Reply with quote
Posted on Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:32 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

So I did some playing around with the 455. Bar ends being short as they are I was able to casually wind only about 1,200 rings and hour. Sawing was another matter completely! Even with the power driven saw and a new blade (3" X 0.010" HSS 280teeth), bathed in a cutting oil and spinning at 175rpm (137fpm) I was only able to cut an average of 375 rings an hour. And that's a way fast fpm for HSS on that material. Should be down around 90fpm. Carbide is the only option for going any faster. So, 12.6 seconds per ring, or roughly 285 an hour... Yikes! Very Happy
The ring lord sells rings close to these in size for $2.85 an ounce (61) rings. These weigh in at 52 rings to the ounce. 5.4 ounces an hour X $2.85 = $15.62 an hour... sheesh. And I haven't even washed them yet, or tumbled them, or packaged them, or anything else!
But, I'm still smiling.
On the other hand, the ring lord doesn't have and can't get 455.
Too, this wasn't a get rich quick type thing to begin with. It was a I really enjoy playing with chainmail, and here's some super cool material, and let's do something with it. And I guess that's why I came here to M.A.I.L. Hoping all of you could help me figure what to do with it.

And I'm glad I did!


Rue

Joined: March 26, 2002
Posts: 1711
Submissions: 313
Location: Chainmailland, Chainmailia

Reply with quote
Posted on Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:07 pm
Link to Post: Link to Post

That sounds like a delicious material, if not a little hard with which to work. At any rate, .070" would be a nice mandrel size Smile .


Tell a mailler what ring sizes to use and they'll weave for a day. Teach them AR and they'll weave forever.
Chainmailbasket.com (2016-02-10) 203 + 17

Post new topic Reply to topic
Jump to:  
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT. The time now is Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:53 am
M.A.I.L. Forum Index -> Knitting Circle
Display posts from previous: