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Joined: October 22, 2010
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Location: Yucaipa, CA

pencil weave
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Posted on Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:32 pm
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this is mostly addressed to slaqr, but anyone should feel free to chime in. i recently did a weave study on Pencil Weave. i discovered some interesting traits and variations. i'm looking to make a tutorial for it, but i would like slaqr's permission first. i found that this weave can be made with 4,5,6,7, and higher sides. the 4 sided version has a tiny inner hole about 1mm diameter. 5 sided has 2mm hole. 6 sided has about a 6mm hole. i found that the even # sides are built differently from the odd # sides. the even # sides are built somewhat "balanced." the 6 and higher even # sides can stand staight up on end if you put them on a flat surface. the odd # sides spiral slightly faster than the evens and cannot stand up on their own. they finish much like jpl where each consecutive ring juts out a little further.











Joined: May 26, 2010
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Posted on Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:35 pm
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Thanks for your interest. You're welcome to make tutorials and anything else you want to do. I've actually already received a pm about a video tutorial but it never hurts to have multiple different media.

I'm glad you've taken the time to explore this weave because I've been too preoccupied to do it myself. If I may ask though, what AR did you use for that second piece? That looks like it could flow into CIR or Turkish Round very cleanly.

Joined: October 22, 2010
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Posted on Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:45 pm
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the second one is the 5 sided. i use 5.91 ar.



Joined: May 26, 2010
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Posted on Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:46 pm
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sorry, the second piece I meant. The 6-sided.

Joined: October 22, 2010
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Location: Yucaipa, CA

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Posted on Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:48 pm
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the 6 sided has 7ar. really tight, might consider 7.5ar.



Joined: May 26, 2010
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Posted on Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:00 am
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I accidentally made a balanced (not offset) 6-sided today using measured AR of 6.15 (20 awg, 3/16" nominal) rings which doesn't fit your descriptions. Perhaps it's some type of +/- 2 offset?



Same rings. Both chains are rigid, though the balanced one on the left is more so. The left tube's OD is about 1mm larger too.

Joined: October 22, 2010
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Location: Yucaipa, CA

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Posted on Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:49 pm
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i can't tell for sure from your pics. the way i can tell the balance 6 sided is that 3 end rings are sticking out the same distance. this enables it to stand up. the offsets cannot stand up. they have 1 or 2 rings that stick out the same distance. as for ar discrepancies, i used 16swg and i've noticed that making things in 20g can accept lower ar than 16swg.



Joined: May 26, 2010
Posts: 210
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Posted on Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:28 pm
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mithrilweaver wrote:
i can't tell for sure from your pics. the way i can tell the balance 6 sided is that 3 end rings are sticking out the same distance. this enables it to stand up. the offsets cannot stand up. they have 1 or 2 rings that stick out the same distance. as for ar discrepancies, i used 16swg and i've noticed that making things in 20g can accept lower ar than 16swg.


Yes, the left pic ends in 3 rings and stands up on its own. I also made a balanced pencil chain using 14 swg, 1/2" (nominal) at AR of 6.5 and it was fairly loose. I can get pics of those later.

Joined: October 22, 2010
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Posted on Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:28 pm
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i think it has to do with how i measure. my 14swg 1/2" rings measure at 6.9 ar. the listed trl measure is 6.6 ar. and you say you get 6.5 ar for that size. i measure the actual wd and not the listed wd. the actual wd always comes out less than the listed wd because the wire gets slightly stretched when coiling. i have higher tension on my coiling than most ring manufacturers. i don't think either way of measuring is wrong, just different. the consequences are that i end up having a higher value for my ars. do you measure from the listed wd? that would explain things.



Joined: May 26, 2010
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Posted on Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:50 pm
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The 20 awg rings are TRL stainless, and are listed as AR of 6.2. I measured these with my calipers at AR of 6.15. I made the 14 swg rings myself and measured them to around AR of 6.5. They are aluminum so they come out a bit tighter than stainless and since I don't use any additional tension when I coil the WD is presumably not significantly smaller than nominal, although I did measure the actual WD for my calculation. In any case 6.5 and especially 6.15 are significantly lower than 7.0 which you've specified as "really tight." That seemed to imply 7.0 was the minimum so I wanted to bring my findings to your attention.

EDIT: I should specify that I also measured the WD of the 20 awg to the nearest .001" in my calculations.

Joined: October 22, 2010
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Posted on Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:23 am
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good to know. thx for telling me. i'm not sure why i get 7.0 ar as the minimum then.



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