Weave Admin Position
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Joined: February 14, 2013
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Location: Madison, WI, US, Earth, Sol System, Milky Way

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Posted on Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:16 pm
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TrenchCoatGuy wrote:
madd_vyking wrote:
This may be the single most rational exchange on the subject in the months since it was first brought up. Why this wasn't the very first idea to fix the situation is beyond me.


It isn't the first time this issue and solution has been brought up. Example. I'm really unsure why nothing has changed (which is why I'm making this post to be a bit more adamant this time around).

I still stick with my comments from the last time a thread like this came up:
TrenchCoatGuy wrote:
I wouldn't say Narnia is struggling under pressure from the position. She is struggling to find enough volunteer-able time to keep up with the demand of the userbase. (I'm aware mithrilweaver has not been the only one asking for a turnaround - Slagr was eager to get his weave through before the end of a gallery contest).

This site needs new and dedicated individuals that can be trusted in their positions. No new admins have been added in the past 1/3rd of this sites existence - That by itself is a major "aging" issue for anywhere on the internet.


You're right, and I apologize... I've read the threads and seen the suggestion come up myself, more than once, it seems.

I amend my last post to include "between current Admins".

The suggestion has been made and discussed multiple times -- among the membership -- but this seems to be, and forgive me if I'm wrong, the first (at least public) exchange between current Admins addressing it. Maybe this means we may start to see some progress in this direction?

(fingers crossed!)



Joined: March 25, 2002
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Location: Selden, NY

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Posted on Sat Dec 19, 2015 1:11 am
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madd_vyking wrote:

There are at least a half dozen folks offering their services for the job, who may or may not have the qualifications to be the new Weaves Admin, but would more than certainly serve well in the capacity of Weaves Admin ASSISTANTS, as it were.


I volunteered as Assistant, not Admin. Razz

Seems things are moving forward nicely right now. The queue has clearly been moving and a few nice weaves have been promoted. Fairly happy that it looks like we've got a reasonable consensus here.

Joined: June 1, 2013
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Location: Ottawa, ON

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Posted on Sat Dec 19, 2015 3:48 am
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I am not volunteering for anything, but this is a good discussion (no one's mentioned a certain party that ruled Germany from 1933-1945!). I have a couple thoughts based on what a few have said below, but it feels like the discussion is shifting in a good way. Let's be real: life happens and there is a whole lot of really cool things that aren't chainmaille and computers. How do we allow for life and for maintaining the site? Is there a way that we can reinforce the Weave Admin's position? What would that look like? Is there a way we can support the Weave Admin? What would that look like?

As to some other points,
Levi wrote:
"A unique and indefinitely repeatable pattern of rings, characterized by the connections between rings, and containing only rings that serve to maintain the physical structure thereof or to connect an instance of the pattern to an adjacent instance."

/calls his lawyer to find out what that means
/hears a click at the other end of the phone
/yells at Saul for a few minutes
/thinks he should get a new lawyer Wink

The definition's not that bad, surely! Saying a chainmaille weave is a unique and indefinitely repeatable pattern of rings characterized by the connections between rings makes a lot of sense to me. It's the second part which fuzzies it a little, as it is designed to clarify and discourage people making simple mods and calling it a new weave. Euro4 where I double every other ring does not count as a weave thanks to that second half. It is a legalistic definition, certainly, and I might argue for rewording the second half and/or the removal of commas; but it does do a pretty good job.

(This fits with your second question, Levi). Having that definition in a short paragraph with your definition (which is also great, albeit less legalistic) on the Weaves Home landing page might help those planning to submit. Check it,
"A weave is a unique and indefinitely repeatable pattern of rings characterized by the connections between rings and containing only rings that serve to maintain the physical structure thereof or to connect an instance of the pattern to an adjacent instance. Weaves are reproducible patterns with certain known characteristics, this library is organised into the below categories:" or something like that.
Levi wrote:

1. Do people agree that the weave library is a in rough shape and needs a reorg?
2. How would you propose "fixing" the library?
3. Do people think having more than one admin for approvals is a good idea?
4. How would you define a "weave" and what criteria needs to be met to make your choice?
5. Tell me as a prospective weave admin, why you would or wouldn't you approve Four Core as a weave.
6. When do you think a weave has grown out of it's parents shadow, so to speak and becomes it's own weave and how would you determine so?

1. I mostly agree, though a ground-up rebuild is not necessarily required. It is difficult to access base patterns and there are not always definitions for categories like "Mage" and "Alpha." (wth is "Mage"?)
2. a. Clean up repeats and duplicate weaves. It would be easy enough to start a cleanup thread. Users sort through submisssions for weaves that are the same, build both to determine if they are or not, and submit their findings to the Weaves Admin.
2. b. Make base weaves more accessible. By base weaves I mean the ones we all learned first: Euro4, Euro6, (Kingsmaille), Byz, Box, HP3, HP4, FP, Jap6, Helm, Spiral, Jens Pind, and the like. From these all other weaves are derived. Having them out front makes us friendlier to newbies, which makes it more likely they'll get involved and become veterans.
3. Is there enough work to merit more than one? It is a good idea if there is enough work to merit it. Also, a wise Admin will use the users to make their job easier.
6. There is something about use or frequency that plays a part in determining if a derivation is its own weave. This is not the sole criteria, by any means. There is something about things being replicated by multiple people and that general consensus and acceptance. I think this may be why I think of Kingsmaille as a weave in its own right when it is merely a doubled Euro but have a harder time with Double Flower Cross Weave (not picking on anyone, just working the random button).
madd_vyking wrote:

There are at least a half dozen folks offering their services for the job, who may or may not have the qualifications to be the new Weaves Admin, but would more than certainly serve well in the capacity of Weaves Admin ASSISTANTS, as it were.

Now you truly have gone madd! Razz

Joined: June 18, 2013
Posts: 16
Submissions: 1

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Posted on Sun Dec 20, 2015 3:52 am
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As one of those people that mostly uses the Library but doesn't really participate otherwise, I thought I'd throw in my thoughts, using Levi's questions for prospective admins:

Quote:
1. Do people agree that the weave library is a in rough shape and needs a reorg?
2. How would you propose "fixing" the library?
3. Do people think having more than one admin for approvals is a good idea?
4. How would you define a "weave" and what criteria needs to be met to make your choice?
5. Tell me as a prospective weave admin, why you would or wouldn't you approve Four Core as a weave.
6. When do you think a weave has grown out of it's parents shadow, so to speak and becomes it's own weave and how would you determine so?


1. Yep. Awesome resource, but it doesn't have the functionality I'd like.
2. The ideal library (which I know would be insanely difficult to implement) would have min, max, and ideal ARs for every weave (or design or whatever), consistent tagging with terms that are clearly defined for anyone with basic chainmaille vocabulary like the definitions at at http://www.mailleartisans.org/articles/articledisplay.php?key=667 (it took me a long time to find a definition for "Mage," and I still don't get it), search-by-AR that works better (right now if you look for a weave with, say, an ideal AR of 4.0, you get those with ideal 4.0-4.9, but not 3.9; I think +- 0.3 or something would be better, along with a choice for all weaves where that AR is possible), and a search filter for weaves with tutorials. Some of us need instructions, and right now finding them is far more work than it should be. I suspect the last would be by far the most realistic to implement. Weaves without tutorials should be in the library of course, but should be filterable. And of course good, detailed pictures.
3. Don't know.
4. I tend to think of weaves and variations as the "stitch" and designs as a specific piece (byz vs. a byz bracelet), but don't know how to easily differentiate between weave, variation, or design. I do think of a few weaves (E4-1, J4-1, HP3-1, box/byz) as the "base" weaves, but other than that...dunno.
5. Not a prospective weave admin, so I don't have to answer Wink.
6. No idea. Also don't really care. I get why people want to differentiate between a weave and a variation and a design, but I'm not one of those people.

For me, a library entry should ideally be a weave or distinct variation (or what the heck, a distinct design) with a name, good picture(s), good description, and good tutorial(s)--I want to know what it is and how to make it, otherwise it's useless to me. The gallery should be a collection of "look at what I made!" tagged with the weave/variation/design used along with as much information as possible (ring sizes, materials, etc), but with everything accepted (i.e., only reject things that aren't actually maille), like it is. I see no need for a design library, because, well, that's what the gallery is for. Admins would have to make the call as to whether something is distinct enough, and has enough information, to also be a library entry.

But I'm not going to be doing any of this, so this is all really what I would demand if I was in any position to even consider demanding it. Realistically, things as they are are an incredible resource, and any improvements will be truly nifty. I really appreciate all the admins--past, present, and future--have done in creating and maintaining this site.

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