OK so another question from a noob about weaving
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OK so another question from a noob about weaving
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Posted on Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:29 pm
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Hey guys (and gals) - sorry for all the questions but I have yet another one

Sometimes when I am weaving I lose my place - this has mostly happened when trying to weave a european 4 in 1. I also have problems in putting the ring in in the right direction (so that it flows with the rest of the rings). I feel like if i didnt have to pick up the weave in order to bend the ring back in place it might help but ... well at least as it stands right now I kind of have to (to be able to see what I am doing and bend it back into the right place so that the ends of the ring dont overlap each other and are flush with each other).

I saw a suggestion online about building a weaving rig (like something to hold the sheet while I weave). Someone also suggested using some rods like chopsticks to keep the weave in place. But then this raises the question of when weaving units (like celtic stars and so on) how would one keep their place while weaving one of them

Does anyone have any advice, tutorials, how to's, directions on rig builds or anything else?

Thanks in advance guys

Krai Havok

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Posted on Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:48 pm
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There are a few options depending on the project.
A vertical loom style work support with the project hanging.
It seams like a good idea but was useless for me though it may be helpful for inlays.

I tend to use thin wire or cord for some weaves like half Persian.
I have a hockey puck and some T pins I have been useing for a long time.
At times I have also used double sides tape and doweling to finish chainmail rings.

It really depends on how I need to hold sometime and what I have available.

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Posted on Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:08 pm
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Generally I just use a large paper-clip (or two) attached to the starting end of the weave; it helps with starting, giving something to hold onto, and it helps with keeping track of where I'm going. Of course, some weaves are more difficult than others.


Craft isn't cheaper than therapy, but it's more fun.
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Posted on Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:52 pm
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For me it's mostly been a matter of practice, especially for weaves like E4-1. Once you've done it enough you can look at the piece and see how it should be oriented and where the next ring should go. Or if a ring has flipped around you can tell where that's happened and correct it. But when you're starting out that kind of thing can be downright maddening, so using paperclips or twist ties to mark the start of the weave can be a big help.

But mostly I either just know the weave well enough to not have a problem, or I'm careful when I pick it up/put it down so that I know how it's oriented (especially if I'm working with a tutorial). For some weaves I use different color rings as well--this is very useful for things like the half persian weaves. (I used to do those on a wire as well, but then I discovered that it's much simpler for me to make a small patch of e4-1 and build off of that).

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Posted on Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:36 pm
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My first attempt at chainmaille was European 4 in 1. After about 90 minutes, I had failed to make anything bigger than about a 6-ring patch. You start with a 5-ring patch, in case that makes my point clearer...

I then tried Half Persian 4 in 1 with a tutorial and had no problems. I've never actually gone back to E4-1, but what I learned is that when you're starting a weave (almost any weave) it tends to flop around on you and lose its shape. Do whatever you need to do (especially taking your time to reorient the weave when you're starting with a tutorial) to get the weave started, and rest assured it will be 10 times easier once you've got it started.

Several weave tutorials tell you when the weave becomes stable. That's your light at the end of the tunnel.

I'll second using a paperclip or some other method of marking the start of a weave to help you keep track of orientation.


-Lucidish

Closing rings since 2013-07-27

A jack of all trades, master of none, often times better than a master of one.

Maille Code V2.0 T4.2 R4.1 En.o Fper MFe.s W$ C$ G0.8-2.0 I3.2-9.5 N8.8 Pjt Djt X0 S13 Hn

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Posted on Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:42 am
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It's mostly just practice to get a hang of sorting out the beginning of weaves.
I'm planning on making a tutorial on holding certain weaves wile weaving.
Many tutorials show you how to weave while the weave is either lying down or weave and then reorder the rings on a surface to show the pattern.
When I started I had a hard time doing this myself.

I suggest getting used to keeping your pliers in your hands even when handling rings (right hand plier right side up and left upside down)
Then for Euro 4-1 I use speed-weaving to avoid the flopping, so I pre-close a bunch of rings and open a few others.

- When you have a unit of 4-1 (one ring with 4 passing through it) Hold that center ring in your left hand between thumb and index finger (holding the upside down plier in that same hand) and have the other 4 rings leaning in the same direction with the two top rings (ones closest to end of your thumb) lying underneath.
- With your right hand plier pick up an opened ring and weave it through the top two rings and have it lean in the same direction and the one you are holding under your thumb.
- Now place two closed rings over the opened ends of the ring you just added.
- Place your right hand plier over one end of the open ring so that you hold as much of the ring (one half) as possible. This should also prevent the rings from flopping over when you let it go.
- Now release your left hand and grab the other end of the open ring with your left plier and close the ring.
- When it's closed grab the chain again with the left thumb and index finger and repeat.

If you keep holding the weave like this by holding the center ring of the row you're working on, you won't get lost as quickly I hope as opposed to lying the weave down.

You could add a small clasp to the bottom of the chain to keep them from flopping over.

Hope this helps, I know it can be tricky without pictures or something. plan on making those. Are there other weaves you're having trouble with?

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Posted on Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:59 am
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I work flat and so far have been able to find my ends with no problems.

My smarter half knits (yarn) and uses stitch markers. I have been eying them up and may "borrow" a few to see how they work with mail.

Here is a link to some (no affiliation I just found these with a quick search to show what I mean -- there are tons of kinds) maybe they would help you:

http://www.amazon.com/Approx-Knitting-Crochet-Locking-Markers/dp/B008QSJDGK/ref=sr_1_3/190-9488911-2694740?ie=UTF8&qid=1389056183&sr=8-3&keywords=stitch+markers

pa

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Posted on Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:23 am
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These are all great options, but if you want something simpler you can just use a different ring. If I'm doing something where I need to keep track of which end I'm working from, I generally put a ring on the end that is very unlike whatever I'm working in for the piece. Usually it ends up being a 5/16" stainless ring because that also helps in grasping things when I'm starting out. I've found this useful for Persian weaves, as well as Byz chains where I needed a specific order (I do a lot of Pride jewelry, for example). For E4-1, if you mark (for example) the bottom-start corner with another ring it might help.

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Re: OK so another question from a noob about weaving
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Posted on Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:25 am
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Krai_Havok wrote:
Hey guys (and gals) - sorry for all the questions but I have yet another one


Consider that if we didn't want to get bothered with questions, we wouldn't be posting here! Coif Cool Smiley We like to teach.

Krai_Havok wrote:
Sometimes when I am weaving I lose my place . . . I feel like if i didn't have to pick up the weave in order to bend the ring back in place it might help . . .


Exactly. If you didn't pick up the weave, the links indeed would not flip over on you, which is what's happening. Notice how the mischief only happens at the edges, where fewer links are joined with the links that get out of order.

So, leave your mailpatch, especially for now of the E4-1 that acts up on you like that, always on the worksurface, preferably a slightly resilient one if you can arrange that -- a beaders' mat is favored by some, others cover a board with one layer of blanket. Or does all one's weaving on carpeting or on a futon's surface.

With your mailpatch laid out flat and smooth, and all its mischievous edge links properly combed into proper link-lie according to the row they are in, always work by sliding an opened link up to and then hooking into the edge you're working at. You can do this trick two links at a time and in effect construct two linkrows simultaneously, too. You come at the weave with the one opened link, into which is already hooked a preclosed link. Which you make take the proper angle, or link-lie, when you have closed that opened link you slid into the weave, doing all your closing right on top of the mail links already woven. Have the opening of the opened link sticking up through there to work on with your pliers.

This is easiest working on an edge whose links angle up off the worksurface -- towards your chest is the very easiest. The angle of link-lie that opposes these is the link-lie angling up towards the opposite wall of the room somewhere around where the opposite wall joins the ceiling.

It's less easy, but possible, to do this along every other edge, even the two-links trick, though you want a little experience with keeping things in order first, particularly along the edges of the mailpatch where there's the greatest problem with disorder. The main helper in smoothing things down properly again is to be able to put them on a surface, so they'll stay.

The other thing is the bigger the mailpatch grows, the more stable it gets. My "Hauberks for First-Timers" article in the Library section here lays some stress on this where I talk about how I start large mailpatches from a 2-1-2-1-2etc chain. Even the length of the chain, which I cannot readily pick up off the table entirely, helps with the stabilization until I've made the chain several link-columns broad -- what I work on left to right in this chain-based making ends up riding straight up and down in wear, hence "columns" not rows.

Little mailpatches can be zipped together readily into big mailpatches, and this should be done whenever appropriate, to help that stability. What's more, it will teach you to not drop a stitch! The hard way.


'The Minstrel Boy to the War is gone...'

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Re: OK so another question from a noob about weaving
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Posted on Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:30 pm
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Konstantin the Red wrote:
Little mailpatches can be zipped together readily into big mailpatches, and this should be done whenever appropriate, to help that stability. What's more, it will teach you to not drop a stitch! The hard way.

The beauty of maille, however, is that one can actually fix things without having to pull the whole thing apart completely. With knitting or crochet, one would have to undo all the work that occurred after the dropped stitch, while with maille, one can simply undo the actual row where the dropped stitch occurred. Something which I was very happy about with the current E4 square I'm working on, where I discovered - about 40 rows later - that I'd lost my place on a particular row. I only noticed it when I laid the whole thing out flat and realized that it wasn't sitting quite flat at that spot. So all I had to do was undo six rings, and re-weave that bit.

Maille is cool.


Craft isn't cheaper than therapy, but it's more fun.
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Posted on Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:22 pm
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In the case of complicated, one-shot unit weaves that don't like to stay tidy before they're completed, just press the mess a bit into a slab of modeling clay.

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Posted on Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:13 am
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I experimented with putting weaves on strings and racks and such when i first started but really the best way to straighten things out is to put the sample on a table and poke it with your finger til it's flat again. the other thought is if you are feeling your 4in1 is getting jumbled you might be using a loose AR and could stand to make it tighter.

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Posted on Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:25 am
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One thing I found particularly useful, especially with frustrating weaves like HP 4-1 is using a plastic guide. get a piece of thin plastic (soft enough that you could punch holes in it). Then use a small hole punch (2mm?) and make several holes along one end of the plastic guide. Now run your first set of rings through the holes to start the weave.

Here is a picture to help explain


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Posted on Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:57 am
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My dad used to laugh at me. I would spread put a sheet of maille and spend ten minutes to figure out precisely which links were wrong.

I will say that practice is the best solution. Not just the weave--we each seem to have our own methods, and figuring out what works for you is vital. I can't use mats and the like, since I used to do maille while pumping groundwater wells in the middle of nowhere, working out of a truck. So I had to learn how to hold weaves, and how to see at a glance what was wrong. If you have a stable work surface, that may not be necessary. Depends on what you have to work with.

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Posted on Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:10 pm
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I used tape or paper clips a lot. I use pins in cardboard with tricky ones like HP 4-1.

I like that plastic idea too.

linked388 wrote:
One thing I found particularly useful, especially with frustrating weaves like HP 4-1 is using a plastic guide. get a piece of thin plastic (soft enough that you could punch holes in it). Then use a small hole punch (2mm?) and make several holes along one end of the plastic guide. Now run your first set of rings through the holes to start the weave.

Here is a picture to help explain


Do you cut the plastic to remove the piece, or open the rings again?

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