Origins of the mobius ball©
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Joined: January 21, 2011
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Origins of the mobius ball©
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Posted on Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:42 am
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OK, a long time ago I recall a thread regarding the origins of the mobius ball©. I only say this because I ran into a gentlemen who was dead set on insisting that he was the founder of the mobius ball© and that he had copyrighted it and that the chainmaille distribution company I work for is in violation of said copyright... I'm looking for a little bit of insight on this. I know a decent amount in regards to copyrighting chainmaille and that it is financially irresponsible to do so due to the fact that so many small things can be changed to avoid copyright infringement. But he seemed a little more serious than others I've run into with the same story.

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Posted on Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:09 am
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mobius ball©
The idea of a ring, in a ring, in all the rings, in all rings... has probably been around for almost as long as rings have been "invented".

"Tight mobius balls© with higher ring numbers make great stress toys. In this application the mobius ball© is patented (US Pat. 541-3519) and also trademarked by Mead Simon."

mobius balls© are not copyrighted because patterns cannot be copyrighted (under US copyright laws). I'm not sure why mobius ball© always has the annoying copyright symbol added to it on MAIL.

As far as I know, Simon Mead patented mobius balls© so that a large company, such as a toy maker, could not patent them and then stop others from making them. I have never heard of an instance where Simon Mead has tried to stop an individual from making the weave mobius ball©, even though he has applied for a patent. I don't know if he or anyone else has trademarked "mobius ball©". I have never looked.


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Posted on Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:33 am
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lorraine wrote:
[weave=mobius ball©©]
The idea of a ring, in a ring, in all the rings, in all rings... has probably been around for almost as long as rings have been "invented".

"Tight mobius balls©© with higher ring numbers make great stress toys. In this application the mobius ball©© is patented (US Pat. 541-3519) and also trademarked by Mead Simon."

mobius balls©© are not copyrighted because patterns cannot be copyrighted (under US copyright laws). I'm not sure why mobius ball©© always has the annoying copyright symbol added to it on MAIL.

As far as I know, Simon Mead patented mobius balls©© so that a large company, such as a toy maker, could not patent them and then stop others from making them. I have never heard of an instance where Simon Mead has tried to stop an individual from making the weave mobius ball©©, even though he has applied for a patent. I don't know if he or anyone else has trademarked "mobius ball©©". I have never looked.


so, let me get this straight - if you make a big tight mobius ball© and take a picture of it or sell it, that is copyright infringement. but, if you make a small three ring mobius, there is no copyright infringement? my followup question would be - where is the line drawn? at how many rings does the copyright go into effect? it must be stated, correct? otherwise, the patent is not enforceable. all patents and copyrights really irritate me. no one owns anything. everyone uses/steels ideas from everyone else - that is what art is. every idea came from the people that inspired it. if everyone is so up in arms about giving credit, both monetarily and otherwise, then everyone should be paying their teachers huge amounts of money for the rest of their lives. it makes no sense.



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Posted on Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:35 pm
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In reverse chronological order:

http://www.mailleartisans.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=17787&highlight=mobius+ball+patent#226223

http://www.mailleartisans.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=14011&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=mobius+ball+patent&start=15#185768

http://www.mailleartisans.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=6794&highlight=mobius+ball+patent#91390

http://www.mailleartisans.org/board/viewtopic.php?topic=2333&forum=1

The link to the patent in the last thread listed appears to no longer work.

As for the appended copyright symbol, I'm not a fan. When I write Mobius Ball on the M.A.I.L. forums, I make it not show up. ZiLi makes it not show up by using the spelling Moebius. Smile


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Posted on Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:01 pm
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so the name mobiusball is trademarked. what you do with your own links is your own business.

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Posted on Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:09 pm
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Chainmailbasket_com wrote:
As for the appended copyright symbol, I'm not a fan. When I write Mobius Ball on the M.A.I.L. forums, I make it not show up. ZiLi makes it not show up by using the spelling Moebius. Smile


That's coded into the forum software somehow... I suspect it's a WoodyIsm...



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Posted on Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:26 am
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mithrilweaver wrote:
lorraine wrote:
[weave=mobius ball©©©]
The idea of a ring, in a ring, in all the rings, in all rings... has probably been around for almost as long as rings have been "invented".

"Tight mobius balls©©© with higher ring numbers make great stress toys. In this application the mobius ball©©© is patented (US Pat. 541-3519) and also trademarked by Mead Simon."

mobius balls©©© are not copyrighted because patterns cannot be copyrighted (under US copyright laws). I'm not sure why mobius ball©©© always has the annoying copyright symbol added to it on MAIL.

As far as I know, Simon Mead patented mobius balls©©© so that a large company, such as a toy maker, could not patent them and then stop others from making them. I have never heard of an instance where Simon Mead has tried to stop an individual from making the weave mobius ball©©©, even though he has applied for a patent. I don't know if he or anyone else has trademarked "mobius ball©©©". I have never looked.


so, let me get this straight - if you make a big tight mobius ball©© and take a picture of it or sell it, that is copyright infringement. but, if you make a small three ring mobius, there is no copyright infringement? my followup question would be - where is the line drawn? at how many rings does the copyright go into effect? it must be stated, correct? otherwise, the patent is not enforceable. all patents and copyrights really irritate me. no one owns anything. everyone uses/steels ideas from everyone else - that is what art is. every idea came from the people that inspired it. if everyone is so up in arms about giving credit, both monetarily and otherwise, then everyone should be paying their teachers huge amounts of money for the rest of their lives. it makes no sense.

No no... I said it is not copyrighted. No, it is not copyright infringement to make, take a picture of, or sell mobius balls© (or any other weaves). Copyrights, patents, and trademarks are not the same thing. Simon Mead seems to have purposely attempted to patent mobius balls© (I don't know for a fact that he was successful) so that chainmaillers can make mobius balls© without being harassed by anyone trying to patent it and stop them. I'm not sure it was the right thing to do, but I truly believe he did it for chainmaillers and not for himself to enforce.
http://www.mailleartisans.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=379&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15#10817

djgm - I don't think the name "mobius balls©" is trademarked, but as I said earlier I don't know that for sure. I seriously doubt it is. Remember trademark, copyright, and patent are three entirely separate things.

There really is no reason to be worried about making, sharing, taking pictures of, or selling things made with chainmaille weaves.


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Joined: October 22, 2010
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Posted on Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:25 am
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thanks for clarifying that.



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Posted on Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:17 pm
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Hi all. I guess I may as well jump in on this. Yes, the mobius ball© is patented, and it is also a trademarked name. There is no copyright on it, or the logo. Yes, you can make them and I won't hassle you.

As for what the patent covers: It basically covers any number of rings from something like 6 to... well, lots. I don't recall off hand. What we covered in the patent was the ratio of that internal hole in relation to the external diameter. And I don't mean the internal diameter of the rings, but the internal hole at the centre of the ball itself. That is what makes it so much fun to play with.

Does that help?

(Oh, and my name is Mead Simon, not the reverse. Just thought I'd clarify that.)

Smile Have fun all.

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Posted on Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:47 pm
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meadbahai wrote:
(Oh, and my name is Mead Simon, not the reverse. Just thought I'd clarify that.)

Smile Have fun all.

I don't know how the hell I managed to mangle your name like that... Sorry Mead Simon! Embaressed


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