Ring Size question for Japanese 12 in 2
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Joined: November 11, 2009
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Ring Size question for Japanese 12 in 2
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Posted on Thu May 10, 2012 11:20 pm
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I haven't been weaving 12 in 2 long and I'm working on a handflower. I've been working with 18g 3/16" and 20g 1/8" for bracelet/necklace sized pieces. The nickel silver I used first fit together great but the anodized aluminum was a tad floppy with the same ring sizes. Anyway, my problem is that I need to make the finger ring. I ordered 20g 3/32" to connect my 20g 1/8" but they proved the wrong size. I'd like a recommendation for 12 in 2 ring sizes suitable for a finger ring. I imagine the 18g I have would work but it seems like it would be too chunky for a ring. Thoughts and advice would be much appreciated. Smile

~Aaron

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Posted on Fri May 11, 2012 5:04 am
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20awg 5/32" might or might not work with the 20awg 3/32", ring sizes vary significantly in smaller sizes. 20awg 3/16" will work for sure.

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Posted on Fri May 11, 2012 5:49 pm
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To get some more ideas you could go over to the weave page and hover over the AR range. This will give you a variety of different ring and wire choices that might help you out.


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Posted on Fri May 11, 2012 6:32 pm
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Just do the maths. You have to fit 12 small rings into the large ones - so (using metric, but I could use decimal inch as well) I calculate as follows:

  • 20awg = 0.8mm
  • 12*0.8mm = 9.6mm 'centerline circumference'
  • divide by pi to get 'minimum centerline diameter' = 3.06mm
  • add one wire diameter (=two times half diameter) to get the circular 12-ring arrangement's outer tangent diameter = 3.86mm
  • next larger standard size is 5/32" (3.97mm).
Given, that springback adds more ring circumference, than saw kerf reduces it, 5/32" mandrel diameter for the large rings will fit small rings made from 20awg/0.8mm wire. In case of dead-soft Copper or Fine Silver it could become too tight (at estimated 0.2 mm saw kerf); but any halfways springy material will give you enough space. Note also, that even minimally thicker small-ring wire results in a no-go situation.

You should note additionally, that this calculation is valid only for 12in1, so for 12in2 some further diameter reserve is needed. I could show the needed maths as well (it's simple geometry), but tell you simply to add around six percent to the needed large ring's inner diameter - in this case this would result in a NEEDED large rings' inner diameter of 4.10 millimeters - chose the mandrel that allows to achieve that with your given wire, and cutting method. To be on the safe side, at least 11/64" amongst the standard mandrel sizes should always suffice.

So if in doubt, use a caliper to make precise small-ring wire diameters measurements, and do the maths.

-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper Mfe.s Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Pj Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hi

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
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Posted on Fri May 11, 2012 11:09 pm
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I think your right Zili, better safe then sorry. Like I tried to fit 1.2mm wire 1/8" in a 5/32" and all I could get was a Japanese 5 in 2. So I would guess you need at least 0.6mm wire to make a Japanese 12 in 2 in the 5/32". What do ya'll think about how it would work out in 0.6mm? we are talking about a finger ring right? TRL gives no stats on 0.6mm 5/64"(I guess any stats at that size would be inconsistent at best), I was thinking for the small rings. IDK my head hurts.

Joined: May 07, 2008
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Posted on Sat May 12, 2012 8:41 am
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For finger rings the maille rings cannot be small enough, in my opinion - you don't want a 'fat' fingerring. Choose the smallest rings that you can yet work just halfways convenient with - Jap allows preclosing the small rings, what eases up the task a bit. But be aware of the workload associated with a smaller ring size, nevertheless - in the end a finger ring can become much more laborious than even a wide bracelet, due to the ring count. But it's usually worth the effort. Been there, done that.

-ZiLi-


Maille Code V2.0 T7.1 R5.6 Ep Fper Mfe.s Ws$ Cpbsw$ G0.3-6.4 I1.0-30.0 N28.25 Pj Dacdejst Xagtw S08 Hi

Human societies are like chain mail.
A single link will be worth nothing.
A chain is of use, but will break at the weakest link.
A weak weave will have the need to replace weak links.
A strong weave will survive even with weak links included.
-'me

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Posted on Sat May 12, 2012 3:47 pm
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http://www.mailleartisans.org/gallery/gallerydisplay.php?key=6125

This is the only example using Japanese weaves for finger rings that I could find.


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Posted on Mon May 14, 2012 2:03 am
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Thanks everyone for your responses. This really is a great community, which is why in part I asked what I did instead of tracking down the math. I always appreciate your wealth of knowledge, Zili. I'm reminded of a math teacher telling his kids, "show your work." That was a great suggestion, by the way, MusicMan to check out ring size suggestions over the weave's suggested AR's. I've been using my phone a lot lately for web work since our computer has been loopy. It's a bit limiting, but I'll check that out before it conks out again. Looking at the nearby rings, I also figured the 20 5/32" would work, djgm. I actually have some from another project and used some 20 5/32" for a GSG ring I just made. And I love the jap rings you posted, Lorraine. Unless that model's hand is fairly dainty, those larger rings look about 18g. I'll post the handflower when I finally finish it. I'm using a Fender pick for the centerpiece.

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Posted on Mon May 14, 2012 2:07 am
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And as if I looked in the answers section of the book, the size for the larger ring suggested by the weave's AR for 20g is 11/64". Yeah, the 20g 1/8" (what amounts to 8/64) didn't work.

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