Need advice on C&T designs rings
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Joined: August 12, 2011
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Location: Texas City TX

Need advice on C&T designs rings
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Posted on Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:33 pm
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Ok so I have a project I am currently working on for a good friend to recreate a hoody I made a while back. The hoody will consist of E6-1 for the body or "vest" section of the project, the sleeves will be a lower AR E4-1 and the hood and a small section of the shoulders will be dragonscale.

The last time I did this project it was all standard round wire, brass and dark annealed steel. This time I want to take it one step further with the dragonscale and do square wire rings for the "scale" rings and use the same dark annealed steel as the connections. My dark annealed steel is 16awg.

My problem is I am no where near familiar with the sizing method that C&T uses and am having a problem with figuring out what rings I will need and how much. I approximate the area to be covered with the dragonscale to be 2.5 square feet in total(this is a little higher than I actually think it will be but always better too much than not enough). Any help would be appreciated.


Hex

Joined: December 22, 2007
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Posted on Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:53 pm
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This is C&T's Square wire weave and size chart:
http://www.candtdesigns.com/cart.php?m=knowledgebase_detail&id=3

If that doesn't help, you should call or email them. They don't seem to be as forthcoming with exact measurements of their square rings as some other places are. Square wire FAQ: http://www.candtdesigns.com/cart.php?m=knowledgebase_detail&id=2


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Posted on Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:53 pm
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Lorraine,

We don't give the measurements because they don't work. Plain and simple. We used to give them out and it created more problems than helped.

http://itsinthemaille.com/articles/square-wire-why-ar-does-not-work/

Hex, if you need help with the weave chart feel free to call or email us, we would be happy to help.



Joined: August 12, 2011
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Posted on Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:05 pm
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Yeah I went through all of their sizing information and well...found it a bit useless as they give no begin point or end point to there A-Z set up. Basically Z could be 1" for all I know. Beginning to have doubts about this source Sad


Hex

Joined: March 3, 2002
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Posted on Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:09 pm
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really, talk to ice up there ^^

he's probably the only person on this board who can help you with the issue you are having.


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

Joined: August 12, 2011
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Posted on Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:09 pm
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ice wrote:

http://itsinthemaille.com/articles/square-wire-why-ar-does-not-work/

Hex, if you need help with the weave chart feel free to call or email us, we would be happy to help.


Basically I need to know is what bronze square rings to buy for 16awg 1/4" rings as the connecting rings for dragonscale with the square rings being the larger of the two. Preferably in gauge and ID.

And appreciate the vote of confidence for this site. Ive heard good things but this sizing thing is being a pain for me.


Hex

Joined: February 11, 2008
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Posted on Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:17 pm
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With 16g (assuming SWG) as the small ring, we don't make a square ring large enough to work. The closest would be the 14g (AWG) "K" ring, but it's a hair and a half too small.



Joined: August 12, 2011
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Posted on Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:29 pm
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So I could go to 5/16 and use those with ease, correct? And as stated earlier Im working with 16AWG.


Hex

Joined: February 11, 2008
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Posted on Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:45 pm
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Sorry, didn't see the AWG before.

In that case, the 14-K MIGHT work, but I don't have any 16 AWG here to try, and that is really the best way to find out. As I mentioned before, ID and AR simply don't work with square wire, and mixing square and round together confuses things even more.



Joined: August 12, 2011
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Posted on Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:02 pm
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ice wrote:
Sorry, didn't see the AWG before.

In that case, the 14-K MIGHT work, but I don't have any 16 AWG here to try, and that is really the best way to find out. As I mentioned before, ID and AR simply don't work with square wire, and mixing square and round together confuses things even more.


Sound like Im in for fun Coif Smiley Thanks for the help lol


Hex

Joined: March 3, 2002
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Posted on Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:12 pm
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they sell annealed steel in awg?


PSA: remember to stretch.
3.o is fixing everything.

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Posted on Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:34 pm
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Hex wrote:
Basically I need to know is what bronze square rings to buy for 16awg 1/4" rings as the connecting rings for dragonscale with the square rings being the larger of the two. Preferably in gauge and ID.


You want REALLY 16AWG 1/4" rings as the SMALL 'connector' ones, and the square bronze as the larger, 'scale' rings? That would necessitate the larger Bronze rings to have an ID of around 3/8", as your small rings would have just shy of that outer diameter, some springback taken into account, irrespective of wire thickness and AR (I know, that four of the large rings' wires must fit through the small rings, but at that high small-ring AR it's unlikely, that there arises any problem in that regard).

Anyway: I'd propose to go DOWN in small rings' diameter (and NOT up to 5/16"), to get a small-ring AR of not much more than four, so if available, 16awg 7/32" ID or even a bit smaller should work much better for DS's 'connector' rings, and allow somewhat smaller 'scale' rings.

-ZiLi-


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Joined: November 14, 2011
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Ring Size
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Posted on Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:16 am
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Hey Ice, is there ANY way you could give us some idea about what the inner or outer diameter of any of these square wire rings are? Yes, I know AR doesn't work the same. That's fine and all.
But my gf likes very small rings, and "20-A" tells me nothing about what sort of diameter I'm looking at. I don't have any weave in mind, so your guide doesn't really do me much good. I like clicking the random weave button on this site until I find one I have the right rings for.
In other words, all I need is some idea of how small these rings are, and then I'll buy them, and find a weave that can work with them.
It'd be awesome if you guys just posted a chart stating diameter & a percentage that the edges are rounded off (or just the diameter even!). This is the only thing that's kept me from buying your rings a month ago. All I've had to work with in the meantime are the square wire stainless rings from The Ring Lord.

Joined: January 29, 2011
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Posted on Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:24 pm
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I'd also like some sort of guideline to the size of the square rings; they are round in shape, so an inner diameter would be great--- and I promise not to compute the (necessarily incorrect) Aspect Ratio.

I feel like I'd have to order samples of a good number of the square rings to plan a project, unless I were to use one of the suggested weaves in the C&T database. Even then, as an example, how big will the recommended 18C rings be when they arrive?

@chrisdrymon: I also enjoy using the random weave generator in order to find new (to me) and interesting weaves. For your purpose, you might also like to use the Weave Search feature here, searching for weaves by AR, and even by single ring size.

http://www.mailleartisans.org/weaves/weavearsearch.php

Joined: December 22, 2007
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Posted on Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:45 pm
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This is where calipers really come in handy. Very Happy


"I am a leaf on the wind." ~ Wash
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